GT350 or Mach 1?

[Mach 307]

The Mach 1 isn’t a GT350 with a Coyote. Having driven both I have to just say that. It’s not just the sound and 8250 revs that make the difference. The look for one, especially from the front, obviously. But also the sides and the rear.

It’s also the way the steering wheel communicates differently through the electric rack, I don’t mean tramlining but rather the tuning. It’s immediately noticeable when both are on same tires. Drive both and you’ll feel it.

Looks are subjective of course. I think both cars look good in their own right. Obviously they look different, one is based on the 2018–2023 chassis whereas the other is the 2015–2017 design language.

As for the steering, the feeling you’re describing may be real, but it isn’t coming from a different EPAS calibration between a 2020 GT350 and a 2021–2023 Mach 1 HP. The two cars share the exact same EPAS rack (STE836 / MR3Z-3504-D). The GT350R is the one that uses a different EPAS rack.

Differences in tires, alignment, compliance, wheel/tire package, driver perception, and overall vehicle character can absolutely make the cars feel different even when the steering calibration itself is the same.

Though it is worth noting that the GT350 and Mach 1 HP both came factory-equipped with Michelin Cup 2 tires and the same 19x10.5 front / 19x11 rear wheel sizes, as well as share both front and rear subframes. The Mach 1 HP also uses the same tire sizes as the GT350R. In contrast, the standard GT350 actually came with narrower factory tires than both the Mach 1 HP and GT350R.

This is where I return to the point made in my earlier post, when comparing these two vehicles.

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[Thomas]

What is there to modify?

See: GT500 5.2L

 

[brfdrums]

Yeah... you'll still like your car, but there's definitely the prospect of liking both the Mach and the 350 better.

And to @TonyNJ 's point, this debate has raged since the Mach was introduced. And it's probably not going away anytime soon.

yep, that’s what I’m afraid of. I think I will be test driving one of each this weekend…

 

[Nate22]

See: GT500 5.2L

The gt500 is not an upgrade to the gt350 tho. They are two completely different cars for two completely different uses

 

[HoldenSSVandGT350]

Looks are subjective of course. I think both cars look good in their own right. Obviously they look different, one is based on the 2018–2023 chassis whereas the other is the 2015–2017 design language.

As for the steering, the feeling you’re describing may be real, but it isn’t coming from a different EPAS calibration between a 2020 GT350 and a 2021–2023 Mach 1 HP. The two cars share the exact same EPAS rack (STE836 / MR3Z-3504-D). The GT350R is the one that uses a different EPAS rack.

Differences in tires, alignment, compliance, wheel/tire package, driver perception, and overall vehicle character can absolutely make the cars feel different even when the steering calibration itself is the same.

Though it is worth noting that the GT350 and Mach 1 HP both came factory-equipped with Michelin Cup 2 tires and the same 19x10.5 front / 19x11 rear wheel sizes, as well as share both front and rear subframes. The Mach 1 HP also uses the same tire sizes as the GT350R. In contrast, the standard GT350 actually came with narrower factory tires than both the Mach 1 HP and GT350R.

This is where I return to the point made in my earlier post, when comparing these two vehicles.

Yes, corrrect, I know these facts. I also know from driving different models of them that the difference is in the tuning and it is palpable. I believe Ford engineers are on record saying that while the subframes are the same, all supporting parts and subsequent tuning aren’t. Even if the EPAS software/firmware is identical, the front brakes on the 350 are not the same.

Case in point, the lighter 2-piece front rotors. Those alone can account for differences in feel/immediacy/feedback when saving 1.5-2.5lbs per corner just like a lighter wheel with the same tires can. I have the GiroDiscs F/R on mine and that difference was even more noticeable.

 

[HoldenSSVandGT350]

The gt500 is not an upgrade to the gt350 tho. They are two completely different cars for two completely different uses

This is absolutely correct, although the 500 is fantastic and much quicker on track. I didn’t even consider the GT500 when shopping 350s. In fact, my other considerations aside from the Mach 1 and DH were CT4V and 5 Blackwings, Camaro SS 1LE and ZL-1 - all Tremecs. The GT500 is an absolute weapon, just not mine because I wanted back in a manual after time away. Damn you, Ford!

 

[Mikepol2]

I wonder if anyone who is not a 350 owner would agree that a 500 is not an upgrade. Have to admit, when one person said it I was shocked, when a second person agreed I was floored. I’ll never understand that one. Would also love to hear what percentage of 500 owners agree.

 

[BlkMach10510]

I wonder if anyone who is not a 350 owner would agree that a 500 is not an upgrade. Have to admit, when one person said it I was shocked, when a second person agreed I was floored. I’ll never understand that one. Would also love to hear what percentage of 500 owners agree.

To many people have blinders on in here.

 

[Nate22]

I wonder if anyone who is not a 350 owner would agree that a 500 is not an upgrade. Have to admit, when one person said it I was shocked, when a second person agreed I was floored. I’ll never understand that one. Would also love to hear what percentage of 500 owners agree.

They're just two different cars

I wonder if anyone who is not a 350 owner would agree that a 500 is not an upgrade. Have to admit, when one person said it I was shocked, when a second person agreed I was floored. I’ll never understand that one. Would also love to hear what percentage of 500 owners agree.

I wonder if anyone who is not a 350 owner would agree that a 500 is not an upgrade. Have to admit, when one person said it I was shocked, when a second person agreed I was floored. I’ll never understand that one. Would also love to hear what percentage of 500 owners agree.

I'm sorry if you can't see that they serve different purposes

 

[Nate22]

To many people have blinders on in here.

Ya people that can't see that they serve different purposes

 

[HoldenSSVandGT350]

I wonder if anyone who is not a 350 owner would agree that a 500 is not an upgrade. Have to admit, when one person said it I was shocked, when a second person agreed I was floored. I’ll never understand that one. Would also love to hear what percentage of 500 owners agree.

It’s not an upgrade if you have to have a manual transmission, for whatever reason. That’s the only issue for me. The GT500 is obviously faster. But, I’d personally rather have my 350 or a manual ZL1 because I wanted to row my own again.

 

[MAGS1]

I wonder if anyone who is not a 350 owner would agree that a 500 is not an upgrade. Have to admit, when one person said it I was shocked, when a second person agreed I was floored. I’ll never understand that one. Would also love to hear what percentage of 500 owners agree.

I don’t own a 350 so I’ll chime in since I’ve driven a 350, 350R and 500 CFTP and don’t have an owner’s opinion. I wouldn’t necessarily say the 500 is or isn’t an upgrade. As others have already said, they’re very different cars with very different driving experiences. One is NA and a manual, the other is boosted and a DCT. Both transmissions suit their respective cars, I wouldn’t want a manual in the 500 and I wouldn’t want the DCT in the 350. They add to each car’s individuality and character. It really depends on what you want out of the car. The 350R is the scalpel and the 500/CFTP is the sledgehammer. That’s the best way I can describe the two. I enjoyed my drives in both cars equally but for different reasons. If I was forced to choose one, I’d take the 500 CFTP. It’s just an animal of a car but it is also surprisingly well mannered in normal street driving. I prefer the looks of the 500 over the 350 ever so slightly as well.

As for the Mach vs 350 discussion, both are fantastic cars. I would take the 350 (preferably an R) over the Mach just because it’s a more raw experience and the noises it makes are so awesome and unique. The Mach HP is a very good alternative if an R doesn’t fit the budget (the 2019-2020 R’s in particular still command a premium).

 

[Thomas]

The gt500 is not an upgrade to the gt350 tho. They are two completely different cars for two completely different uses

True, though I think you will find many who argue that point as splitting hairs - but the context of the post was a hypothetical upgraded engine. The 5.2 engine (not talking DCT but the actual engine) is exactly that. An upgraded 5.2 with the lessons learned from the GT350 to make it more reliable (and support more power).

 

[BlkMach10510]

I don’t own a 350 so I’ll chime in since I’ve driven a 350, 350R and 500 CFTP and don’t have an owner’s opinion. I wouldn’t necessarily say the 500 is or isn’t an upgrade. As others have already said, they’re very different cars with very different driving experiences. One is NA and a manual, the other is boosted and a DCT. Both transmissions suit their respective cars, I wouldn’t want a manual in the 500 and I wouldn’t want the DCT in the 350. They add to each car’s individuality and character. It really depends on what you want out of the car. The 350R is the scalpel and the 500/CFTP is the sledgehammer. That’s the best way I can describe the two. I enjoyed my drives in both cars equally but for different reasons. If I was forced to choose one, I’d take the 500 CFTP. It’s just an animal of a car but it is also surprisingly well mannered in normal street driving. I prefer the looks of the 500 over the 350 ever so slightly as well.

As for the Mach vs 350 discussion, both are fantastic cars. I would take the 350 (preferably an R) over the Mach just because it’s a more raw experience and the noises it makes are so awesome and unique. The Mach HP is a very good alternative if an R doesn’t fit the budget (the 2019-2020 R’s in particular still command a premium).

The GT500 CFTP is a vaery fast sledgehammer.

 

[MAGS1]

The GT500 CFTP is a vaery fast sledgehammer.

Very much so

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