Sold my 2019 GT Premium PP1 401A - now looking at a 2016 or 17

[GregR]

This post is for those who really know, who have driven and/or owned both cars. I don't mean to disrespect anyone who has read something on the internet, used ChatGPT, etc. I have as well. I want to hear from those who know.

I liked my 2nd car, weekend driver 2019 GT Premium manual , beautiful car, the one in my avatar, but it was almost too pristine, and there was nothing to do to it; the previous owners had done all of the mods and upgrades I would have done. I replaced all four tires, battery, and changed the oil in 3k miles of use. It had leather Racor seats, which I loved. Honestly, all I could do is clean it and drive it.

It was too loud, with long-tube headers, high-flow cats, H-Pipe, and a Borla Atak catback. And had a wengerd 93 octane and rev limiter tune as well. It had the active exhaust, although the Borla muffler was not equipped with them. She was fast and torquey, though! And spotless. Everyone thought it was brand new. It was lowered too much IMO and I was always worried about hitting/dragging on things. It was more than I needed for a weekend driver, fun car. I sold her for what I paid for her 2 years ago, so all is well.

I now have my eye on a 2016 GT Premium PP1 manual with minimal mods. I am not able to drive it yet. I have done my research on the engine HP and Torque compared to 2019. 2019 is slightly higher. As a 59 year weekend driver guy that likes to turn wrenches, go to car shoes, cars and coffee, will I really notice a difference? I am not a gear head per se, but I do like to do as much of my own work as possible so that I could see mods in the future (long tube headers, cold air intake, for example).

Honest opinions, will I really notice a difference in HP/Torgue between the 2?

My budget is $28K

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[exvette]

as you almost never use full throttle in daily driving, I don't see how you could feel any difference in performance. You may feel a difference if the torque and horsepower curves are vastly different (horsepower and torque - for example in there is a large difference in the curves at the RPM you use on the street). If they are substantially parallel, I don't think you would notice any difference.

 

[RocketGuy3]

The general rule of thumb is that the butt dyno cannot easily pick up differences in HP less than about 10% (all else being equal, of course). I agree with that statement. I think that, short of highly skilled professional racing drivers (and even then only when they have the help of a lap timer), most people cannot feel the [supposed] 6 hp gain from their axel-back exhaust with no tune. Those that claim that they can probably don't understand the placebo affect.

Anyway, all that to say, no, I don't think you will feel much of a difference... IF your previous car was stock, but it sounds like after the mods you had, it was quite a bit quicker than stock. So in your case, you might notice it being slower.

Would it bother you? I don't know you or your driving style well enough to say. But honestly... probably not.

 

[GregR]

I guess a better question since my previous one was heavily modified and tuned, comparing stock to stock, would I as your average weekend driver notice a difference in horsepower, performance and speed? I'm hearing no, which is what my research suggested.

 

[RocketGuy3]

Yeah, stock for stock, very few people would be able to reliably tell the difference. And even if they really, truly could, it's not gonna be a game changer.

That said, the teeny highway efficiency advantage of direct injection in the 2018+ 5.0s is kinda nice, too. But ultimately, the engine need not be a significant factor in your decision if there's something else that's important to you.

 

[Mach VII]

I bet you notice the difference in transmission gear ratios...

 

[Paddles]

I bet you notice the difference in transmission gear ratios...

This.

I'm guessing you will like the feel of the gen 2 ratios more.

 

[wa9njm]

I've owned a '16 GT PP, '19 GT PP, '21 Premium GT, and now a '19 Bullitt. My '16 GT PP was more fun to drive in the mountains than any of the Mustangs I've had since. Specifically because of the way they neutered the gears on the 18-up cars. Even though on paper my '16 had 435hp and my '19 Bullitt has 480, the '16 felt faster. And the gear spacing was night and day better. In the Bullitt I always feel like I have to be 1 gear lower than I should be.

 

[TonyNJ]

I noticed a difference immediately between a 2016 and a 2018 during a test drive. Both were stock. I felt the power improvement almost instantly in the 18. However, the 16 was a manual, and 18 was an auto. 18 also had all the premium stuff, digital dash, active exhaust, etc. It was just better all around.

You mentioned your 16 being too loud, but then talk about putting headers on a new one again?

 

[Strokerswild]

The '15-'17 manual trans gearing is pretty stout, especially so coupled with the 3.73 PP rear. That alone might make up for the stock power difference when it comes to seat of the pants feel.

 

[1MeanZ]

And the gear spacing was night and day better. In the Bullitt I always feel like I have to be 1 gear lower than I should be.

The '15-'17 manual trans gearing is pretty stout, especially so coupled with the 3.73 PP rear. That alone might make up for the stock power difference when it comes to seat of the pants feel.

This is 100% correct and I feel like gets lost way too often with everyone thinking they gotta have the latest and greatest. 15-17 cars are the best bargain right now. I have the Ford Performance Power Pack Level 3 on my '16 GT PP1 along with some other small mods. If you did the PP3 kit alone, you will make the same or slightly more power than an 18+ car and you'll have better gearing which results in a faster car. Couldn't be easier....

16-17 cars have the better infotainment options.

Also, the 15-17 front end is way better!

 

[Strokerswild]

This is 100% correct and I feel like gets lost way too often with everyone thinking they gotta have the latest and greatest. 15-17 cars are the best bargain right now. I have the Ford Performance Power Pack Level 3 on my '16 GT PP1 along with some other small mods. If you did the PP3 kit alone, you will make the same or slightly more power than an 18+ car and you'll have better gearing which results in a faster car. Couldn't be easier....

16-17 cars have the better infotainment options.

Also, the 15-17 front end is way better!

Agreed.

I've got the GT350 manifold on mine with 47# injectors and a flex tune. It's a beast. Forget about traction in first on 305 rears, second can even be sketchy depending on the pavement.

 

[Eyesac]

I've owned a 2015pp manual and currently a 2020pp manual. I was very disappointed with the 2020 from the beginning. 2020 was definitely faster out of the box than the 16 with a tune and intake, but the throttle response, gear ratio, vibrations, engine noise, suspension tuning & shocks, even the ABS/Traction control tuning was worse. Still not a huge fan of this 2020 and kinda look forward of getting out of it. Likely get a Mach after this car, maybe go back to a 15-17...

 

[TonyNJ]

This is 100% correct and I feel like gets lost way too often with everyone thinking they gotta have the latest and greatest. 15-17 cars are the best bargain right now. I have the Ford Performance Power Pack Level 3 on my '16 GT PP1 along with some other small mods. If you did the PP3 kit alone, you will make the same or slightly more power than an 18+ car and you'll have better gearing which results in a faster car. Couldn't be easier....

16-17 cars have the better infotainment options.

Also, the 15-17 front end is way better!

Good point about the 15-17 being a bargain. But how is the infotainment better?

 

[Paddles]

Good point about the 15-17 being a bargain. But how is the infotainment better?

I think he means they are better than the 2015s which had that weird older style

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