2019 Mustang Bent Rod

[BentRod19GT]

I will probably roll the dice and approve the additional pictures. I will probably be back asking advice on replacing the engine myself, reman or new.

There’s really not enough info to go by and lack of responses from OP is not helping.

First, it’s not mentioned anywhere, but is the OP the original owner (bought the car new) or is this a vehicle that was bought used? If the latter and it was bought used, it’s highly possible the car has (or had) a tune by a prior owner. If that is the case, as was mentioned, Ford Techs and Ford Engineering can immediately tell if the car was ever flashed for a tune via key counts…. No way around it. Now if the car was bought new and the owner has never tuned it… there’s something to argue with the Dealership and let them prove how or why they believe there is a tune.

—

The whole cutting off cats on a modern day daily driver is a total waste of time, money, and the aggravation that goes along with it. These engines and factory software programming is not like the past, they are very efficient engines and removing cats doesn’t do diddly for a street driven Mustang TODAY….

The problem when going in for ANY Warranty work, be it the original Ford 5/60 Powertrain or an aftermarket or Ford extended Warranty is this:
The moment you “modify” the systems (software OR hardware) from the As Built parameters OR start dicking with the PCM via Forscan or tunes - you have “tampered” with the vehicle and it’s no longer considered “As Built”. Therefore Ford has the discretion to void any part of an existing Warranty OR totally deny all work under a Warranty claim.

It’s not so much that the physical catalytic converters were removed from the exhaust stream…. The issue is once you remove them, you’re literally changing the dynamics of the PCM’s logic and all of the sensor feedback that’s tied into or monitor emissions.

As stupid as it may sound to some of you Barney Rubbles out there - once the air/fuel ratios and sensor parameters are changed, to compensate, which is what happens, THAT is affecting engine performance and reliability. THIS is why Ford can and does void warranty work IF the factory cats have been removed or hollowed out and a vehicle with a blown engine comes in for repair.

It’s not that the “exhaust” will make an engine throw a rod, it’s the change in parameters of the air/fuel ratios being affected that could have an adverse affect on extreme operation and or long term use (70k…..) where over time washing down the cylinders would eventually end in a later catastrophic event.

I’m NOT saying that is what happened, I’m giving clarity as to why a simple cat removal has a BIG impact on Ford’s decisions to say “nope” on a major warranty claim.

For all we know, the engine dropped a valve which caused the ventilation at speed …. Or maybe there was a money shift… or maybe the oil pump gear exploded …. or maybe the vehicle was low on oil … or …. or…

Right now everything is speculation until the OP gets more feedback from the Dealership on what direction Ford has decided in this case.

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[Mach VII]

Cats got your tongue OP?

 

[K4fxd]

THIS is why Ford can and does void warranty work IF the factory cats have been removed or hollowed out and a vehicle with a blown engine comes in for repair.

I've never heard of a warranty denial due to no cats. Can you provide proof of this?

The factory ECM can easily compensate for any exhaust change.

 

[Cobra Jet]

This is definitely up for debate...

https://www.mustang6g.com/forums/threads/2018-gt-dyno-before-and-aft-mak-cat-delete.105082/

There is no debate.

Let’s be clear too - I’m talking a total street car - that doesn’t see any track time or extreme use…. There’s no benefits to removing cats off a street car, there just isn’t.

The average S550 owner won’t see diddly in performance gains driving it on the street where the vehicle isn’t seeing sustained speeds or high RPM for consistent periods of time. Driving to and from a few miles here and there, within posted speed limits, with traffic control devices, and where speed limits will be 65mph and under for many - there is NO gain in feel, performance or gas mileage.

You will gain:
- Louder exhaust
- raw pungent fuel odor inside car or around car while sitting in traffic
- possibility of fines if snatched up in a street side visual inspection where these occur in certain States
- certain Dealerships that want to deny warranties

I’ve had all sorts of performance Mustangs for over 30 years now. If it’s a dedicated track car, or a car that sees 65%-100% track time (drag racing, road racing or auto cross) OR is at extreme levels of HP N/A or with forced induction - then sure, there’s going to be gains seen and logged BECAUSE the vehicle is driven at extremes where speed/rpm is maintained for X-interval with nothing slowing it up such as traffic control devices and/or “traffic”.

Sure we can argue this from here to the moon - but there isn’t any gain removing cats from a modern day street car. Hell, a street car doesn’t even use its max HP potential while putzing around town on local roads, highways or byways.

You can show me dyno’s all day long of a catted vs a non-catted S550 - but a street driven N/A or forced induction S550 isn’t hitting peak RPM/HP bands as it does on a dyno - it’s not being used to its maximum potential on the street where a gutted or removed catalytic converter will make any discernible difference. - so dyno comparison runs is a moot discussion….

I’m in no way trying to be a jerk and I’m also in no way a “greenie” at all. I’ve had my fair share of catless performance cars when younger…. Thought it was “the bomb” because you know, “everyone does it”, “gonna gain me some HP”, but eventually one learns that what everyone else did was not always the right thing to do…

There’s plenty of high end manufactured sports cars, exotics, and other performance cars (and now trucks) with significantly higher HP than the S550 platform which have catalytic converters plus emissions equipment intact and still perform extremely well.

 

[Cobra Jet]

I've never heard of a warranty denial due to no cats. Can you provide proof of this?

The factory ECM can easily compensate for any exhaust change.

Key word:
Compensate

When you’re removing emissions, associated sensors and/or catalytic converters the ECM is “compensating” which merely means it’s keeping the car running, but it’s not keeping the car running effectively and efficiently as it was designed when those components are not in place.

Removing cats or emission control devices on a street car is screwing with the air/fuel trim ratios. Sure maybe the car isn’t throwing a code OR someone “tuned it out”, but that does not mean the ECM or engine is running at its peak performance as it was designed. The ECM has failsafes implemented into it, it is designed to keep the car running when there are potential sensor or part failures providing and assuming at some point the owner will fix the sensor or item that has failed.

When you’re deleting emission control devices from the data stream, you’re not going to have immediate problems with the engine but if you’re running it long term or say for 100k miles as such, you’re decreasing engine longevity since the ECM is and has been “compensating” for what’s missing.

Again, I’m not talking about vehicles that are used for the track or have been highly modified beyond factory HP and are now pushing major HP.

To remove a catalytic converter and then bring it to Ford for a major warranty repair like an engine failure is just asking for confrontation and possible denial of coverage or repair. The emissions (includes exhaust from engine to tails and all associated components for emissions) is 8years/80k whichever comes first. Granted this Warranty and the 5/60 Powertrain are totally 100% separate from each other - but when one “tampers” with a component covered under 1 warranty area, it does give way that Ford again under their discretion can then say they won’t cover XYZ repairs because the vehicle has been tampered with ….

Removing cats won’t cause a rod to ventilate a block BUT - the removal of the cats now falls under tampering AND Ford or any 3rd party Warranty Company can then elude to that the car was used for “racing” which is “off road” and they can instantly say “nope” they’re not going to cover the repair under warranty. Catalytic converters and emissions control devices are Federally Mandated and must remain on the vehicle, regardless of what State Laws say otherwise (where some States do not do anything with emissions). Because the cats and emissions are Federally mandated, removing them from a vehicle that still has a warranty is “tampering”. That’s how it’s interpreted in the Ford Warratnies.

You all have to look outside the box - it’s not just about the cats were removed and the removal couldn’t have caused the rod failure…. It’s how Ford OR a 3rd Party Warranty Co. will view the removal and how that could have played a part in the engine failure…. Kinda like “cats removed, car probably used for racing, if used for racing, that is how engine ventilated”…. See? Sure - long stretch, sure a lot of “ifs” and “assumptions”, but you have to see it from their side too.

If anyone were to actually read the Ford Warranties all the way through and not what is covered but “what is not and why”…. you will see how Ford’s legal team worded things and how easy it is for them to deny coverage even on 2 totally separate pieces of hardware (engine / cats) that are covered by 2 separate warranty provisions.….

I’m not saying the OP was racing or did something that caused the engine failure - what I am saying is since the cats are gone and the engine is blown - it’s leaves too many interpretations for a Ford Dealership to question OR a 3rd Party Warranty (Insurance underwriter) to question…. We’ve seen it time and time again on here where recently S550’s are being denied coverage.

In fact there was just a thread posted last week where the M6G member is having difficulty getting warranty work because of missing cats…

It’s not me calling the shots; I’m just giving insight as to what they will question and how they *could* deny the coverage.

As we say many times on here - if you’re going to play the game and take chances with mods (any mod) and then need Ford for when something big fails, be sure to have the cash set aside to cover the repair if Ford or 3rd Party denies repair under warranty.

 

[luc]

Removal of the cat in and of itself will not cause engine damage. If it is or has been tuned that could.

If you are sure the car has never been tuned then the key cycles will jibe with the total hours and miles on the car.

If denied you do have grounds for appeal.

If they deny for tune make sure they document any evidence.

If they deny for no cats make sure you get a written reason for the cats to cause the rod to come apart.


Good luck

Doesn’t work like that
They don’t have to prove or give a causal reason in writing between the absence of cats and bent rod
They will just deny it and you will then have to go to court if you want anything more

 

[luc]

"possible" tune means they don't know which means they can't prove it which means they have no legal standing to deny warranty. if you did nothing to jeopardize the warranty then jump through the hoops and raise hell if they get shady.

You guys are funny. In real life they don’t have to prove squat until you take them to court

 

[K4fxd]

When you’re removing emissions, associated sensors and/or catalytic converters the ECM is “compensating” which merely means it’s keeping the car running, but it’s not keeping the car running effectively and efficiently as it was designed when those components are not in place.

You are not a tuner are you? There is virtually ZERO change in engine parameters catted VS non-catted it's not like adding an aftermarket cold air intake.

They will just deny it and you will then have to go to court if you want anything more

This depends on the State and the laws in it.

You guys are funny. In real life they don’t have to prove squat until you take them to court

Again depends on where you reside. They may not have to "prove" anything till court but they do have to list a reason for denial.

 

[SnowFox]

You guys are funny. In real life they don’t have to prove squat until you take them to court

You probably don't need to goto court. After you draft, file, and serve the complaint. I wouldn't be shocked if Ford covered it. Not because Ford is scarred to fight it...but because Ford probably won't think the juice is worth the squeeze.

$40 billion dollar companies, don't really make a large habit of litigateing in an actual court unless absolutely nessasary and worth it.....a sub 10k claim that can be debated? I don't see Ford dispatching the private jet with suits in it for that.

But .maybe...shit Disney does...but fk Disney.

 

[luc]

You probably don't need to goto court. After you draft, file, and serve the complaint. I wouldn't be shocked if Ford covered it. Not because Ford is scarred to fight it...but because Ford probably won't think the juice is worth the squeeze.

$40 billion dollar companies, don't really make a large habit of litigateing in an actual court unless absolutely nessasary and worth it.....a sub 10k claim that can be debated? I don't see Ford dispatching the private jet with suits in it for that.

But .maybe...shit Disney does...but fk Disney.

Drafting and filling a complaint is going to court….
In most cases that also means that you have hired a lawyer and paid him a retainer
Frankly arguing that removing cats is not modifying a car ( besides the fact that it is illegal under the laws) is silly
Ford don’t need anything more to deny the claim and win in court

 

[jpjr501]

Driving down the road and rod goes through the block? I don't think so. Had to be a money shift or something in the high RPM's.

If the only mods are really no cats and it gets denied, you can hire attorney to prove no cats caused this. However, it won't be cheap and it'll take a long time. You have a 50/50 shot.

My best friend has a 2020 Dodge Challenger Hellcat Redeye Widebody and just bought a second full warranty ($6800). He wanted to put an oil catch can and the service writer said don't do it, can void your warranty. Something that will actually help the car, they told him no. We put one on anyway, can be removed in 2 minutes. He throws the stock tube on when he takes the car to the dealer.

 

[Skye]

There's the Ford ESP agreement and those offered by third parties. With respect to Ford, it's settled by arbitration. Lawyers can be retained in support of the Owner's efforts.

The following excerpt is from my Ford ESP:

" 13. DISPUTE RESOLUTION & ARBITRATION: Either You or We may
choose to have any dispute related to this Agreement or the
Application decided by non-binding arbitration administered by the
Better Business Bureau (BBB). You agree not to consolidate or group
Your dispute with other arbitration or disputes concerning this
Agreement or Application. You agree that You will not participate in
any class arbitration concerning this Agreement or Application. We do
not agree to class arbitration. To learn about or begin arbitration, or
get a copy of the Arbitration Rules, You may contact BBB at
800-955-5100 or www.auto.bbb.org/extendedserviceplan. If there
is a conflict between the Rules and this Agreement, this Agreement
shall govern. If You initiate the arbitration process, BBB will charge
You an arbitration filing fee of $50.

You may employ an attorney to represent You in the arbitration, but
an attorney is not required. We will not pay Your attorney fees if You
use an attorney. This Agreement is subject to the Federal Arbitration
Act, 9 U.S.C. §§1 et seq. The arbitration decision shall be in writing
with a supporting opinion."

 

[Jaymar]

Doesn’t work like that
They don’t have to prove or give a causal reason in writing between the absence of cats and bent rod
They will just deny it and you will then have to go to court if you want anything more

Additionally, the case is civil court. They don't have to prove causation down to the most granular steps and prove beyond a reasonable doubt, they just have to show it's possible beyond what you can prove is impossible.

 

[Jose1962]

Car is at the service department, pictures of what can be seen already sent to warranty. No mods directly to engine, that why it's curious they say possible tune, not definite. Also I researched on this forum that cat removal would not cause failure to engine but would void the warranty on the exhaust. Not sure what to do, I need all the advice I can get.

I pulled up to dealer to get warrrnty on brake recall they told me not touching car cause of mods n tune Didn’t want to brick computer

 

[BentRod19GT]

I decided to go with the pictures. My initial question was why hasn't ford warranty already denied the claim if dealer is telling them possible tune and no cats. All maintenance up to date.
Also will the dealer tell me what caused the hole in the block?

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