Staggered or Squared Setup?

[JAJ]

Can stock GT350 rear reels be used on the front with spacers. I believe the stock reels are +62 offset.

Yes. I do it on my car. Install a set of GT350R front hubs, a pair of 38mm spacers, and everything fits so well that you might think the factory planned it that way. A 19x11 ET62 stock rear rim with a 38mm spacer gives you a 19x11 ET24 that works with stock lug nuts. It's dimensionally identical to the GT350R fronts. Well, except for the carbon fiber part. I use 35mm spacers because they're easier to find, but it works just fine.

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[mavisky]

Great breakdown on bolt-on vs slip-on from Steeda. Basically the Bolt on-just has more points of failure.

 

[GT350Keith]

Yes. I do it on my car. Install a set of GT350R front hubs, a pair of 38mm spacers, and everything fits so well that you might think the factory planned it that way. A 19x11 ET62 stock rear rim with a 38mm spacer gives you a 19x11 ET24 that works with stock lug nuts. It's dimensionally identical to the GT350R fronts. Well, except for the carbon fiber part. I use 35mm spacers because they're easier to find, but it works just fine.

I know very little about this at this point. So I can't just bolt on stock rear wheels and 305/35/19 tires on the front without doing all these mods?

 

[Angrey]

Can anyone actually definitely demonstrate how much more tire life is achieved by running square?

Aside from the efficiencies of simply purchasing a single tire spec (there's not that big of a price difference between the fronts and rears) and the obscure benefit of having 4 wheels all the same (I recently ran into a situation where I had a front flat and with the backspacing, couldn't use a rear spec wheel as a temp, so I bought a $500 spare kit, so there is that, IF you have an extra set of wheels).

Honestly, why the brain damage? Is it really extending the life of the tires significantly for non-track rats?

For someone who burns through tires at track events, I would think this is a sensible approach, but for anyone else, is it REALLY that big of a benefit?

 

[GT350Keith]

Never mind, I just watched the Steeda video and now it makes sense. Forgot about the different offsets of the wheels.

 

[mavisky]

Can anyone actually definitely demonstrate how much more tire life is achieved by running square?

For someone who burns through tires at track events, I would think this is a sensible approach, but for anyone else, is it REALLY that big of a benefit?

Even for non-track rats there are advantages with being able to rotate front to rear. Take a browse through the GT350 forum and you'll see many posts about people wearing out the inner edge of their front tires even with good alignments while driving on the street. Being able to rotate front to rear frequently helps share that inner tire wear across the front and rear axle which would considerably extend the wear period, possibly by as much as 30-50% as the rear tires and outer edges of the front tires still have decent tread depth once that inner edge wears out at the 12-15k range.

For track rats this wear is simply accentuated, but it's still 90% of the time the inner front edge that wears out first, just in a much shorter period of time.

 

[luc]

Can anyone actually definitely demonstrate how much more tire life is achieved by running square?

Aside from the efficiencies of simply purchasing a single tire spec (there's not that big of a price difference between the fronts and rears) and the obscure benefit of having 4 wheels all the same (I recently ran into a situation where I had a front flat and with the backspacing, couldn't use a rear spec wheel as a temp, so I bought a $500 spare kit, so there is that, IF you have an extra set of wheels).

Honestly, why the brain damage? Is it really extending the life of the tires significantly for non-track rats?

For someone who burns through tires at track events, I would think this is a sensible approach, but for anyone else, is it REALLY that big of a benefit?

#1 benefit is not tire life but better handling by significantly reducing understeering

 

[JAJ]

I know very little about this at this point. So I can't just bolt on stock rear wheels and 305/35/19 tires on the front without doing all these mods?

Correct. Without the spacer, the rim hits the suspension strut. Without the switch to GT350R hubs the wheel studs are too short to get nuts onto.

Now, that said, if you're just running it for street use, there are spacers that bolt onto the original hub and that have studs for bolting the rims to the spacer. These are an easy, essentially mod-free, way to run rear rims up front, but many folks don't think they're safe for track use.

 

[robvas]

Jeep/Truck guys uses those spacers, often with wheel/tire combinations that are 35-37" in diameter and 100lbs each. And their vehicles weight way more.

 

[Angrey]

#1 benefit is not tire life but better handling by significantly reducing understeering

That can be remedied through tire pressures, adjustable sway bar and different springs (if necessary). Or if you just want to run a 305 on the R spec wheel in the rear (or a 295 on the non R spec wheel)

 

[luc]

Jeep/Truck guys uses those spacers, often with wheel/tire combinations that are 35-37" in diameter and 100lbs each. And their vehicles weight way more.

And obviously Jeep are known to be high speed, performance vehicles subject to high “G” loads in turns…sure….

 

[Angrey]

Even for non-track rats there are advantages with being able to rotate front to rear. Take a browse through the GT350 forum and you'll see many posts about people wearing out the inner edge of their front tires even with good alignments while driving on the street. Being able to rotate front to rear frequently helps share that inner tire wear across the front and rear axle which would considerably extend the wear period, possibly by as much as 30-50% as the rear tires and outer edges of the front tires still have decent tread depth once that inner edge wears out at the 12-15k range.

For track rats this wear is simply accentuated, but it's still 90% of the time the inner front edge that wears out first, just in a much shorter period of time.

I think that's dreamy and rose glassed. The issue you're talking about is primarily for the toe and camber on the front. So maybe you pick up a little extra life out of the original front tires.

In essence, if you don't rotate and you don't do burn outs, the rear wheels in theory will outlast the fronts or need replacing less frequently. Now you're swapping and evening that out, you'll end up replacing all 4 at a higher frequency than just the rears. Perhaps it's not at the same rate as the staggered fronts, but it's probably not as significant as you're claiming. Again, I'm looking for something credible rather than what people think is intuitive or makes sense.

On it's surface, people think that by preventing forest fires they're helping. Briefs well on paper. In reality all you're doing is ensuring that once there is a fire (and over a long enough time line there is, nature actually depends on it) that the fuel has built up to the point that the fire is completely amplified and devastating.

I'm not saying the notion here is counter intuitive but I have yet to see any real teeth behind the idea that for street driving, it makes all that much of a difference to rotate them from front to back.

 

[luc]

Are you saying that adjusting the stiffness of the front or rear sway, the tire pressure or spring rates that none of that has an effect on the traction balance of the vehicle?

?????? What are you talking about ????
The post was about bolt on vs bolt-through spacers

 

[robvas]

And obviously Jeep are known to be high speed, performance vehicles subject to high “G” loads in turns…sure….

They pull boats, climb rocks, catch air at the sand dunes, get on two wheels...

 

[luc]

They pull boats, climb rocks, catch air at the sand dunes, get on two wheels...

And what is your point ?
Anyone with a modicum of mechanical knowledge will understand that bolt on double the numbers of potential failures points compared to bolt through
What creates a lot of sideways loads for a wheel/hub combination is the grip of the tires on the road in high speed turns. Track tires + track surface + high speed = high lateral G loads
Not what an street/off road tires on street or loose surface can even come close to achieve

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