Guys with Low mount Turbo kits.

[noshine4mine]

My bad I guess resizing the picture messed up the quality. Yeah, off the manifold. The main source is the high lighted line.

lol I used that spot too.

Sponsored

 

[noshine4mine]

Finally Home. Just needs to be tuned.

 

[noshine4mine]

UPdate:
So screwed with the car friday and saturday. Got my tune from wengerd (awesome dude). Was having some serious idle issues and tried fixing that before I worried about any other aspects of tuning. Got the tuner to look at the cams and he confirmed the intake cam was going out of phase causing the stumble (at first we thought it was a vacuum leak). So I did some research on the the cam issue. At the time I was getting misfires on six of eight cylinders (not all the time but randomly). So I decided to swap out the VVT solenoids (only 23.00 each, and only needed to remove the valve cover to access them). Also finally got the OS code from the tuner so I could do a Crank relearn through the HPtuners VCM software. So I finished the solenoid swap and drove it, the car was still misfiring and running generally poorly. Went to my spot and tried the crank relearn. First time it made no difference (i think it had codes in PCM, supposedly it wont work if there are codes). Cleared codes and re-ran the crank relearn. Car seemed to act better. so I threw it in drive and took off. Cruising in town I didnt see any misfires so I went out to the back roads to do break in procedures. Started running it up in 4 th and 5th up to 5500 RPM in some cases and letting it coast back down. Still no codes. Drove it for like 40 min and went back home. As soon as I put it in park the car idled low and dies. I check the engine codes.....Nothing. Needless to say I am very happy I am not getting misfires any more while driving. This morning I start it up and it is acting like utter shit. Checked the codes again and i see a #3 misfire on the code reader. Cleared the codes after it warmed up a little, drove it around and ran up the RPMs again. came back home and it idled poorly, checked the codes and had no misfires. Felt strong (been a long time since I drove it with 8 working cylinders).
I am atleast happy it is driving good now and after I break it in I can tune for boost. I am guessing I am going to need Cam phasers, but since the engine is brand new (if you are getting an engine rebuilt...put new phasers on it, I regret I didnt do that) I will be waitting a while before looking at changing the cam phasers. I read that thin oil can cause the phasers to act funny, so at the least I am going to wait until 1k miles when I put 5-w50 synth and see if it helps.
Wish I knew what happened between when I dropped it off for a TT kit and when I picked it up to make it get misfires so frequently. When I picked the car up, it did have a broke piston in #8 but it never idled poorly and threw codes on 4 and 7 and sometimes others and would go into limp mode.
I will probably put new plugs in it. But I dont think it will help; the plugs I used didnt even have 500 miles on them. I think they are .032 gap. Tuner said to gap the new ones at .026.

I am out of ideas and i am wore out fooling with this thing, I have put in a shit load of hours in the last 2 weeks working on it.
Any insight would be appreciated.


TLDR:
Changing intake cam VVT solenoids was a waste of time
Crank relearn resolved Misfires that were happening while driving.
Idle dips and recovers and sometime dips and makes the car die.
Confirmed Intake cam was out of phase causing the idle dips (not a vacuum problem)

 

[wazslow]

If it's misfiring and throwing codes, I wouldn't attempt to get into boost until you fix whatever issue is going on. I never had a single code since installing my kit/fuel system/etc. Something is not right.

 

[gimmie11s]

Man, sorry to hear that.

When I installed my new motor I didn't need to do a crank relearn. Car fired up and ran just like stock, like nothing ever happened.

Go over and check for vacuum leaks, be sure the MAF sensor is plugged in, throttle body is plugged in, all the basic stuff.

Make sure battery is fully charged and alternator is charging.

Take plugs down to 22 thou or so. 26 seems too far open to me.

 

[mech94]

It doesn't matter what spring you have in there if you have them bov's hooked up to the manifold they're going to open

wastegate get reference from turbo volutes blow off valves have to be on manifold behind tb to see vaccum from throttle body closing will not work getting reference before the tb

 

[noshine4mine]

I installed the original tune and the idle issues went away. Tuner is checking the old tune. My guess is it would be the MAF calibration since it is in the Intercooler not the charge pipe.

So far, it looks like it is going to be ok. SInce the old tune idles perfect I no longer think it is mechanical. no more misfires to date. New BOV springs will be here today. I will put 50 more miles on it and I should be able to start tuning boost.

Car had me freaked out for a While.

 

[Vegas5OH]

The blow off valves are supposed to be open at idle. Even at idle the turbos are moving more air then the engine needs to idle correctly. It is not un metered air because first off, its blowing air out of the bov when they are open not sucking, 2nd off the maf is after the bov in the system. I have installed 2 hellion sleeper kits, my own car and my buddys. At idle both of them are blowing out of the bov at idle. The wastegates should be closed at idle obviously, bov open.

 

[Zrussian13]

The blow off valves are supposed to be open at idle. Even at idle the turbos are moving more air then the engine needs to idle correctly. It is not un metered air because first off, its blowing air out of the bov when they are open not sucking, 2nd off the maf is after the bov in the system. I have installed 2 hellion sleeper kits, my own car and my buddys. At idle both of them are blowing out of the bov at idle. The wastegates should be closed at idle obviously, bov open.

That's what I thought too (mine are open at idle) but after this came up on this thread it got me doing some research and I'm not so sure it should be that way now....

 

[Brandon91]

I had Hellion kit on my 17 Camaro and both blow off valves were open at idle. I also had a is300 with a 2jzgte and the valve was open at idle. Both cars ran smooth. I’ve been around a lot of turbo cars and all of them seem to have the bov opened at idle.

 

[noshine4mine]

BOVs being open will work no doubt. But turbosmart said they should be closed. My issue is the crank case pressure routing back into the Airfilters for the turbos. With the BOV open that shit just gets blown out into the air and I can smell it and see it. That shit annoys me. Its bad becuase I am still seating the rings. You can do as you please but I opted for springs to keep them shut. I installed them last night. One thing about the BOVs being open is the turbo pressure is being lost as it spools up until boost is acheived then they will close. I want my turbos to achieve boost as fast as possible even if the effect of the BOVs is tiny. I WANT IT ALL!!!

So far so good though, it runs good. Tuner gave me a new revision and it is idling better. Actually drove it to work today.

I sent a question to Hellion to see what their stance on the subject is. Hopefully they will reply.

 

[WIST2019GT]

@HELLION TURBO

Can you chime in?

 

[gimmie11s]

OEM turbo vehicles have their BOV closed at idle.

There is no manufacturer on earth that is going to sell a mass produced vehicle that draws in unfiltered air into the engine via open BOV at idle.

Sure, there are aftermarket tuners who can tune around this -- but this is NOT how the system is supposed to operate and as such is not correct.

Not to mention there are systems where the MAF sensor is before the BOV which would lead to unmetered air if the BOV was open.


From TiAL themselves --

Ian Kautzman <[email protected]>
2:32 PM


You BOV should be fully closed at idle. With you vacuum at idle reading -18, you should be using our Plain spring for sure. The black spring is too weak to keep the BOV closed. Sounds like you are not losing any unmetered air, but you're boost response time will be quicker with the BOV closed. Try to get the Plain spring installed if you can.

Regards,

Ian
TiAL Sport

 

[noshine4mine]

OEM turbo vehicles have their BOV closed at idle.

There is no manufacturer on earth that is going to sell a mass produced vehicle that draws in unfiltered air into the engine via open BOV at idle.

Sure, there are aftermarket tuners who can tune around this -- but this is NOT how the system is supposed to operate and as such is not correct.

Not to mention there are systems where the MAF sensor is before the BOV which would lead to unmetered air if the BOV was open.


From TiAL themselves --

Ian Kautzman <[email protected]>
2:32 PM


You BOV should be fully closed at idle. With you vacuum at idle reading -18, you should be using our Plain spring for sure. The black spring is too weak to keep the BOV closed. Sounds like you are not losing any unmetered air, but you're boost response time will be quicker with the BOV closed. Try to get the Plain spring installed if you can.

Regards,

Ian
TiAL Sport

DO you know what the spring pressure you current one is? and what pressure the new one is? I got the white spring from Turbosmart i think it is 21inHG to 19inHG.

Just for clarification. I dont think an open BOV is sucking in unfiltered air. Everything I have seen it is blowing out excess from the turbo.

 

[HELLION TURBO]

@HELLION TURBO

Can you chime in?

Hey Guys,

There is a lot to talk about here.

First, in a turbo or supercharger kit there are many systems working together ---this is not as simple as a "blow off valve is supposed to do this or that".

Every style engine/combination can have a different Vacuum value at idle or during transitional throttle. Different elevations and atmospheric conditions can also affect this number and affect the rate at which this happens.

In our 25 years experience building these systems for multiple vehicles we definitely take the BOV position and operation as a priority. With our testing on the Mustang (and keep in mind we make systems for all makes of American muscle--Camaro, Hemi) we found that to keep drivability like stock, we cannot have the BOV open at erratic and inconsistent times. This will lead to a spike in MAF signal and can change the driving characteristics of the car. Keep in mind we sell these systems as tuner kits, and we are not in control of the final tune or goal. Can the car run with the BOV open at idle?--yes. Can it run with it closed?-- yes. We actually do not even run a traditional BOV in our record holding X275 race car---and that can work as well.

Bottom line is there are many different ways to utilize this great equipment, but with our experience over time and our evolution to produce the best part, we send our Turbosmart valves with a soft spring to open quick on decel, and it works best for us.

To answer the other questions:

The Valves actually blow air out at idle, so no debris will be brought in, and we have tested the throttle response to having the valve open or closed at idle, and the results were the same. This is due to the Mustang having a quickly reacting throttle.

Hope this helps.

Team Hellion

Sponsored