Unstable corner transitioning

[MartinNoHo]

So a little mod list, 19x10 285 squared, ST coilovers (kw v1 equivalent), strut tower brace, and non pp package.

I started canyon running my car a lot more (2x a week), taking it slow, learning the car, most importantly learning to properly drive, and my car is handling good, but now I have a small problem. During fast turn transitions from Left to Right (i.e. long clockwise corner quickly transitioning to long counterclockwise corner) my car feels twitchy it doesn't want to transition fast enough even though the angles are nearly identical like a perfect S-shape (maybe not "flat" enough):

So, I was curious if this could be fixed with
Option 1: sway bars, if sway bars which ones (front, rear, or both) and what setting low middle or high.
Option 2: a BMR cradle lockout
Option 3: 2 point ultralite steeda brace (don't think it will tbh)
Option 4: It's not the car it is me, (learn to drive).

In addition, I have to reclock my passenger front suspension probably by unbolting and retightening (clunks), maybe a factor.

-Martin

Sponsored

 

[Dana Pants]

IDK your setup, but generically:

increasingly front strut rebound would settle the car.

A stiffer front swaybar would settle the car. There is even a option to re drill the OEM bar.

braces do nothing

check your alignment once more.

make sure front tires have a few psi more than the rear. Maybe 34/31 or similar

a car’s suspension really can’t be tuned on the street.

 

[Radiation Joe]

If your car is behaving differently transitioning left-right compared to right-left, check your corner balance. It's possible your coil-overs are not set correctly. This in not uncommon with adjustable ride height suspensions.

 

[MartinNoHo]

If your car is behaving differently transitioning left-right compared to right-left, check your corner balance. It's possible your coil-overs are not set correctly. This in not uncommon with adjustable ride height suspensions.

No in both scenarios it behaves the same, I already got it corner balanced. It has a hard time wanting to change direction under slight load or after I exit a corner and enter another corner. I could draw a picture if that would help make it easier to convey in words, I find it hard to communicate what's going on over messages.

 

[AlbertD]

What are your current alignment specs?

 

[luc]

No in both scenarios it behaves the same, I already got it corner balanced. It has a hard time wanting to change direction under slight load or after I exit a corner and enter another corner. I could draw a picture if that would help make it easier to convey in words, I find it hard to communicate what's going on over messages.

If you drive that fast on the street that you notice this type of behavior, you drive way too fast and need to take your car to a road course
Seriously
Also only a track will allow you to correctly set up your suspension and if you have the non Brembo front brakes, you need to switch over

 

[MartinNoHo]

What are your current alignment specs?

Camber:-1.8 front, -1.5 rear,
Toe: I believe was 0 in the front, and 0 or .05 in the rear

 

[MartinNoHo]

If you drive that fast on the street that you notice this type of behavior, you drive way too fast and need to take your car to a road course
Seriously
Also only a track will allow you to correctly set up your suspension and if you have the non Brembo front brakes, you need to switch over

All road courses are closed, the non pp front brakes won't last me long due to the inverted venting style, and its an empty canyon at 6am sunrise with no cars or cyclists for miles. More so, on this canyon there are far more aggressive drivers than me when I do see them.

 

[Roadway 5.0]

Toe: I believe was 0 in the front, and 0 or .05 in the rear

Double-check your rear toe. If you’re only running 0.00 to 0.05 in the rear you’ll for sure experience some odd handling characteristics. 0.12 per side is a good standard.

 

[MartinNoHo]

Double-check your rear toe. If you’re only running 0.00 to 0.05 in the rear you’ll for sure experience some odd handling characteristics. 0.12 per side is a good standard.

Was factory spec set to .12, if so I expect it to be set there as my first alignment I know for sure the camber was what I said and the toe was factory spec. I shouldn't have thrown away the sheet........

 

[AlbertD]

Some toe out up front may help with quicker steering response and can you elaborate on what you mean by 'twitchy'?

I have a fairly track oriented setup R bars, BMR handling springs, FRPP track shocks... The car handles amazingly well and during fast transitions it does take a 1/4 second or so for load to transfer from side to side, but... It doesn't feel twitchy at all. Very controlled and predictable.

These cars are heavy... They aren't going to transition quickly like a much smaller /lighter car.

 

[MartinNoHo]

Some toe out up front may help with quicker steering response and can you elaborate on what you mean by 'twitchy'?

I have a fairly track oriented setup R bars, BMR handling springs, FRPP track shocks... The car handles amazingly well and during fast transitions it does take a 1/4 second or so for load to transfer from side to side, but... It doesn't feel twitchy at all. Very controlled and predictable.

These cars are heavy... They aren't going to transition quickly like a much smaller /lighter car.

I think load transfer is what I'm looking to say, is there anyway I can make that delay shorter. Speaking of light cars I drove a fully built miata and Mr2 for track (first time driving small light cars), now that's what I want it to mimic (probably wouldn't).
More so to explain this twitch if the straight away is long it will transition well, a little short and I have a delay in quick turning response making me brake more than I would like even though I know it can take that corner at a higher speed from the other end.

 

[MartinNoHo]

Some toe out up front may help with quicker steering response and can you elaborate on what you mean by 'twitchy'?

I have a fairly track oriented setup R bars, BMR handling springs, FRPP track shocks... The car handles amazingly well and during fast transitions it does take a 1/4 second or so for load to transfer from side to side, but... It doesn't feel twitchy at all. Very controlled and predictable.

These cars are heavy... They aren't going to transition quickly like a much smaller /lighter car.

It's not a twitch, it is a delayed response that feels like understeer because I won't get the load quick enough to the correct side.

 

[NightmareMoon]

Take it to an autox or road course. Throwing parts at the car won't help much if the driver doesn't yet understand how the car is responding to inputs.

You can't safely learn handling on the street, you need to be able to make mistakes and the street doesn't allow for that. Even a road course will have a much wider 'lane' to play with before you get off track and into trouble.

I've seen switchbacks that were too quick for a Mustang to navigate easily, but they're pretty rare. The solution for faster transitional response is some combination of stiffer springs, shock settings, and/or swaybars, but the resulting handling is both faster to get into trouble as well as faster to recover from trouble. Better to learn those lessons on a closed course with fewer hazards. All you have to do is drop one tire off on the street and it can quickly turn into a bad day.

 

[AlbertD]

Nightmare said it best, agree with everything he has said.

Sponsored