GT500 vs ZLE

[roygriffin2020]

Why are you referencing an aftermarket Camaro. The LT5 Camaro doesn't exist. Chevy doesn't upgrade present Gen models with power upgrades so unless there is a 7th Gen I wouldn't expect any upgrade to a LT5 but you already knew that right. Just my opinion but I think all of Chevy's focus is on the Corvette with GS, Z06, and maybe ZR1 upcomoing models. The Camaro sales continue to struggle so why would Chevy dump even more investment money into the present model, will an LT5 increase sales? Either they step up with a 7th Gen or let it die off.

You read only what you want don't you, but after the "killing the Camaro" it was shown to only be postponed.

How long did GM keep the ZR1 with 755 hp before killing it......uh huh....exactly.

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[Alain]

GT500 has generated a lot of excitement for good reason. It's a very badass car and killing the mustang stereotype. I think more often than not, a camaro owner is perceived as a "camaro guy", but really they are car guys that happen to own a camaro... and are on this forum looking to decide if their next car might be a mustang. Brand loyalty only makes sense if you're an employee or stock holder. Let's hope the CFTP car DESTROYS the ZLE in most tests and gives us ZLE owners a new option for higher performance.

Much respect to you for this post !!

This is exactly why I came to this forum!!!! You’ve encapsulated my experience to the letter.

I bought a 2016 Hellcat and it is such a blast of a car to drive that it thrusted me back into the car culture. I had spent the previous 5 years working and riding my Harley Davidson and not really caring about car culture.

I then came back to the Camaro forums (I’ve been a member there since 2010 when I bought my Camaro SS). Learned about the Zl1 1LE there and went out and got it.

Then I came to this forum after Ford announced the Shelby GT 350R. Researched the car and learned about its quirks and issues. Started the hunt for MSRP deals and Finally bought my R last September.

I really don’t get why people get so defensive about a brand of a car.

I hope Chevy throws one more punch before putting the Camaro to sleep and they put that LT5 in it. We all win !!!!!!!!

 

[V00D00]

I have a VBox Laptimer and all the data from the laptimer was almost identical with the MyLaps transponder I'd use on the roadcourse. So it is pretty much dead on. I never heard of anyone saying VBox is inaccurate??? Could you please clarify your comment?

i feel like people are really REALLY lazy. i mean, if you have time to comment about somehtign youdont know, then you have the time to type in a search engine

https://www.audizine.com/forum/showthread.php/805028-Track-vs-vbox-vs-Dragy-results

but hey, again, im just super involved with this stuff.. what do i know..

Exactly the case... but I do love the multiple LOSSES that the GT500 is getting when racing the ZLE!! It sends all the blue oval fanbois into a frenzy!!! Especially when you figured the ZLE is $55K for low mile used all day... and sub $65K new... taking it to the $100K 2 seat mustang.

While I might consider a CFTP car when they get a bit more reasonable... the blindness and lack of respect to 'other car makes' in here is 2nd to none. Well... maybe it's 2nd to Camaro based on the skid pad and handling tests!

Dave

hey, if you want the 2nd best option, and a good car, get the zle, its fine, does what it was meant to do. If you want the best, you gotta pay for it.. same argument for the z06/zr1 level.. your goin to get better performnce, but YOU ARE GOING TO PAY FOR IT.

as it sits not, gt500 killed camaro and pinkeye- its competitors

 

[thill444]

Didn’t GM kill the 6th gen Z28? I’m guessing based on sales and other factors they won’t be offering a more powerful Camaro variant over the current ZR1. It will be all about the Corvette for the next few years.

 

[ZRacerLE]

Much respect to you for this post !!

This is exactly why I came to this forum!!!! You’ve encapsulated my experience to the letter.

I bought a 2016 Hellcat and it is such a blast of a car to drive that it thrusted me back into the car culture. I had spent the previous 5 years working and riding my Harley Davidson and not really caring about car culture.

I then came back to the Camaro forums (I’ve been a member there since 2010 when I bought my Camaro SS). Learned about the Zl1 1LE there and went out and got it.

Then I came to this forum after Ford announced the Shelby GT 350R. Researched the car and learned about its quirks and issues. Started the hunt for MSRP deals and Finally bought my R last September.

I really don’t get why people get so defensive about a brand of a car.

I hope Chevy throws one more punch before putting the Camaro to sleep and they put that LT5 in it. We all win !!!!!!!!

You have great taste in cars my man! ... and glad you made it back to the car culture. I lost interest for a few years as well (felt like that side of me died), so decided to get something new and different. It feels great to be in love with my car again.

 

[L8APEX]

i feel like people are really REALLY lazy. i mean, if you have time to comment about somehtign youdont know, then you have the time to type in a search engine

https://www.audizine.com/forum/showthread.php/805028-Track-vs-vbox-vs-Dragy-results

but hey, again, im just super involved with this stuff.. what do i know..

RaceLogic makes more than just the PerformanceBox, which is what you linked. I have the VBox Predictive Lap Timer and it is dead on accurate. The 0-60, the g-force, speed data, etc, etc. I don't really see anyone using the PerformanceBox anymore because it is a dated design from over a decade ago. AiM makes excellent products too.

The real advantage of the VBox is for those who do HPDEs:

https://rennlist.com/forums/data-ac...e/942694-racelogic-video-vbox-hd2-review.html

The capabilities are pretty incredible there and I found the predicitive laptimer really helpful.

 

[V00D00]

RaceLogic makes more than just the PerformanceBox, which is what you linked. I have the VBox Predictive Lap Timer and it is dead on accurate. The 0-60, the g-force, speed data, etc, etc. I don't really see anyone using the PerformanceBox anymore because it is a dated design from over a decade ago. AiM makes excellent products too.

The real advantage of the VBox is for those who do HPDEs:

https://rennlist.com/forums/data-ac...e/942694-racelogic-video-vbox-hd2-review.html

The capabilities are pretty incredible there and I found the predicitive laptimer really helpful.

ill bet you a track day rental its not, loser pays expenses. Its worse the faster the car is. Im speaking of 1/4 mile performance of course. I never even tried mounting the vbox to either of my bikes on a course ( wait did i just leak i DO have road course experience on 2 AND 4 wheels, yet still consider myself a novice?) so you may be right in that regard, but my point is vboxing on a random pieceof paved road, means nothing, especially when they go through such exhaustive means to datalog a roadcourse, but not the 1/4 mile

 

[martinjlm]

Didn’t GM kill the 6th gen Z28? I’m guessing based on sales and other factors they won’t be offering a more powerful Camaro variant over the current ZR1. It will be all about the Corvette for the next few years.

There’s a bit of debate as to whether the ZL1 1LE was what everybody thought would be the 6th Gen Z28 or if there was yet another car in the plan. Z28 was a track focused beast. ZL1 1LE is a track focused beast. Seems to follow that one is the spiritual successor of the other. If there was going to be a Z28, I can’t imagine it being more track focused than the ZLE, so what would it have been?

Some thought it would be a higher output naturally aspirated track car. I’m pretty sure the engine for such a beast no longer exists in GM’s engine portfolio. The 7.0L is gone and not coming back. Putting the LT5 in would make it more of a beast, but more in terms improved strip capability than track, though it would not have hurt track capability at all.

So, I’m sticking to the idea that the ZL1 1LE is what people were expecting would be the Z28.

 

[ZRacerLE]

There’s a bit of debate as to whether the ZL1 1LE was what everybody thought would be the 6th Gen Z28 or if there was yet another car in the plan. Z28 was a track focused beast. ZL1 1LE is a track focused beast. Seems to follow that one is the spiritual successor of the other. If there was going to be a Z28, I can’t imagine it being more track focused than the ZLE, so what would it have been?

Some thought it would be a higher output naturally aspirated track car. I’m pretty sure the engine for such a beast no longer exists in GM’s engine portfolio. The 7.0L is gone and not coming back. Putting the LT5 in would make it more of a beast, but more in terms improved strip capability than track, though it would not have hurt track capability at all.

So, I’m sticking to the idea that the ZL1 1LE is what people were expecting would be the Z28.

This makes the most sense.

 

[roygriffin2020]

There’s a bit of debate as to whether the ZL1 1LE was what everybody thought would be the 6th Gen Z28 or if there was yet another car in the plan. Z28 was a track focused beast. ZL1 1LE is a track focused beast. Seems to follow that one is the spiritual successor of the other. If there was going to be a Z28, I can’t imagine it being more track focused than the ZLE, so what would it have been?

Some thought it would be a higher output naturally aspirated track car. I’m pretty sure the engine for such a beast no longer exists in GM’s engine portfolio. The 7.0L is gone and not coming back. Putting the LT5 in would make it more of a beast, but more in terms improved strip capability than track, though it would not have hurt track capability at all.

So, I’m sticking to the idea that the ZL1 1LE is what people were expecting would be the Z28.

Since the Z28 has always been an N/A motor, I don't see GM changing that. Mercury Marine created the first Corvette ZR-1 LT-5 motor awhile back in Stillwater Okla. It was designed by Lotus and was an amazing engine. Mercury Marine has in the last two years expressed interest to GM that they would be open to building a monster N/A engine again. That would be something.

 

[martinjlm]

Since the Z28 has always been an N/A motor, I don't see GM changing that. Mercury Marine created the first Corvette ZR-1 LT-5 motor awhile back in Stillwater Okla. It was designed by Lotus and was an amazing engine. Mercury Marine has in the last two years expressed interest to GM that they would be open to building a monster N/A engine again. That would be something.

The ZL1 was also always naturally aspirated. Until it wasn’t.

Fun story.... I used to refer to the C4 ZR1 as the best car that should have never been built. Bear with me for a minute. One of my most intense assignments as Manager - Engine Service Engineering in the mid ‘90s was to develop and implement the service plan for the LT5 engine as the 1989 - 1995 Corvette ZR1 went out of production. Spent a lot of time in Stillwater. Bought the last couple dozen engines coming off the Stillwater line and had them stored in a very secret location, under VIN# control. Only GM dealers could order them and they had to have a valid ZR1 VIN and then had to pay a ridiculous core deposit to make certain that the engine removed from the car with matching VIN came back to GM.

We had to find new casting and forging suppliers for the heads and cranks because the original suppliers went out of business. You’d be amazed at what a raw unmachined head casting cost even back then. And then it had to be machined and assembled. Just replacing heads would cost more than most engine replacements of the time. Since they were very unique engines, the service part quantities were even lower than prototype parts run quantities, so they cost like prototype parts. Thankfully that is not the case with C6 & C7 Z06 / ZR1. Because so many of the major engine components changed between the 1989 introduction of the car and the 1995 end of production, we had to engineer retrofit kits in the event a 1989-90 car had to be repaired with 1993-95 components. How’d you like to replace your heads and have to buy a new engine wiring harness as part of the repair? It was a freaking nightmare. Thus, my description of it being the best car that should have never been built.

Regardless of what Mercury Marine says, I’d be beyond shocked if something like that ever happened again. GM has a low volume performance build center at the Bowling Green plant that can build LT4 / LT5 and will probably also make the 5.5L DOHC when that engine breaks surface. They don’t need MM.

 

[roygriffin2020]

The ZL1 was also always naturally aspirated. Until it wasn’t.

Fun story.... I used to refer to the C4 ZR1 as the best car that should have never been built. Bear with me for a minute. One of my most intense assignments as Manager - Engine Service Engineering in the mid ‘90s was to develop and implement the service plan for the LT5 engine as the 1989 - 1995 Corvette ZR1 went out of production. Spent a lot of time in Stillwater. Bought the last couple dozen engines coming off the Stillwater line and had them stored in a very secret location, under VIN# control. Only GM dealers could order them and they had to have a valid ZR1 VIN and then had to pay a ridiculous core deposit to make certain that the engine removed from the car with matching VIN came back to GM.

We had to find new casting and forging suppliers for the heads and cranks because the original suppliers went out of business. You’d be amazed at what a raw unmachined head casting cost even back then. And then it had to be machined and assembled. Just replacing heads would cost more than most engine replacements of the time. Since they were very unique engines, the service part quantities were even lower than prototype parts run quantities, so they cost like prototype parts. Thankfully that is not the case with C6 & C7 Z06 / ZR1. Because so many of the major engine components changed between the 1989 introduction of the car and the 1995 end of production, we had to engineer retrofit kits in the event a 1989-90 car had to be repaired with 1993-95 components. How’d you like to replace your heads and have to buy a new engine wiring harness as part of the repair? It was a freaking nightmare. Thus, my description of it being the best car that should have never been built.

Regardless of what Mercury Marine says, I’d be beyond shocked if something like that ever happened again. GM has a low volume performance build center at the Bowling Green plant that can build LT4 / LT5 and will probably also make the 5.5L DOHC when that engine breaks surface. They don’t need MM.

MM expressed their interest 2 years ago and as you see, nothing has happened as the BlackWing Cadillac motors and beyond have surfaced. The Corvette will get the 5.5 FPC

The ZL1 was also always naturally aspirated. Until it wasn’t.

Fun story.... I used to refer to the C4 ZR1 as the best car that should have never been built. Bear with me for a minute. One of my most intense assignments as Manager - Engine Service Engineering in the mid ‘90s was to develop and implement the service plan for the LT5 engine as the 1989 - 1995 Corvette ZR1 went out of production. Spent a lot of time in Stillwater. Bought the last couple dozen engines coming off the Stillwater line and had them stored in a very secret location, under VIN# control. Only GM dealers could order them and they had to have a valid ZR1 VIN and then had to pay a ridiculous core deposit to make certain that the engine removed from the car with matching VIN came back to GM.

We had to find new casting and forging suppliers for the heads and cranks because the original suppliers went out of business. You’d be amazed at what a raw unmachined head casting cost even back then. And then it had to be machined and assembled. Just replacing heads would cost more than most engine replacements of the time. Since they were very unique engines, the service part quantities were even lower than prototype parts run quantities, so they cost like prototype parts. Thankfully that is not the case with C6 & C7 Z06 / ZR1. Because so many of the major engine components changed between the 1989 introduction of the car and the 1995 end of production, we had to engineer retrofit kits in the event a 1989-90 car had to be repaired with 1993-95 components. How’d you like to replace your heads and have to buy a new engine wiring harness as part of the repair? It was a freaking nightmare. Thus, my description of it being the best car that should have never been built.

Regardless of what Mercury Marine says, I’d be beyond shocked if something like that ever happened again. GM has a low volume performance build center at the Bowling Green plant that can build LT4 / LT5 and will probably also make the 5.5L DOHC when that engine breaks surface. They don’t need MM.

I just refuse to believe that GM will not push the ZL1 to 750hp or above. I mean even Hertz Rent-a-Car has a 750hp ZL1. How hard is that to beleive and to make a 750+hp to keep up with the GT500. I think people that believe GM will rest on its laurels are only having wishful thinking.

 

[Bangarang]

MM expressed their interest 2 years ago and as you see, nothing has happened as the BlackWing Cadillac motors and beyond have surfaced. The Corvette will get the 5.5 FPC


I just refuse to believe that GM will not push the ZL1 to 750hp or above. I mean even Hertz Rent-a-Car has a 750hp ZL1. How hard is that to beleive and to make a 750+hp to keep up with the GT500. I think people that believe GM will rest on its laurels are only having wishful thinking.

They better do something because this Predator V8 with the DCT is smooth as silk. It’s as calm or aggressive as you want it to be. Amazing

 

[martinjlm]

MM expressed their interest 2 years ago and as you see, nothing has happened as the BlackWing Cadillac motors and beyond have surfaced. The Corvette will get the 5.5 FPC


I just refuse to believe that GM will not push the ZL1 to 750hp or above. I mean even Hertz Rent-a-Car has a 750hp ZL1. How hard is that to beleive and to make a 750+hp to keep up with the GT500. I think people that believe GM will rest on its laurels are only having wishful thinking.

They better do something because this Predator V8 with the DCT is smooth as silk. It’s as calm or aggressive as you want it to be. Amazing

On one hand, integrating the LT5 into Camaro should be fairly easy, since LT4 is already there. On the other hand, I don’t expect GM would do anything to boost Camaro performance at least until Z06 is launched. That means don’t expect anything new until after late 2021, if at all in what ‘s left of 6th Gen. Maybe a special edition to sunset 6th Gen.

 

[Bangarang]

On one hand, integrating the LT5 into Camaro should be fairly easy, since LT4 is already there. On the other hand, I don’t expect GM would do anything to boost Camaro performance at least until Z06 is launched. That means don’t expect anything new until after late 2021, if at all in what ‘s left of 6th Gen. Maybe a special edition to sunset 6th Gen.

I think they need to invest in some good designers and get the exterior and visibility issues fixed. Throw in the LT5 to give better performance. But fixing the esthetics is the main issue to keep the Camaro viable. Most Camaro and Mustang sales come from what they look like to the customer buying a 30k all the way up to 100k obviously.

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