"Mustang Mach E" Confirmed, Reservations Begin Immediately After Nov 17 Live-Streamed Reveal

[Bikeman315]

This is really simple..............


Mustang

Mach-E

When you only have one hook that's where you hang you hat!!!!!!!

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[Meatball]

It’s muddying the waters. Recently a non-car person saw my Mustang in the driveway and said “oh you have a mustang!!” As if that was instantly a bit awesome and made me a notch cooler. Which it does in their mind. I think that’s the appeal of the foxbody 4 and pre-2011 v6’s...non car people appreciate the aura of the mustang without even considering its performance capability, and account for a huge % of sales. They’re the ones subsidizing our performance mustangs. It’s nice that all Mustang owners since 2011 have true high performance cars.

Porsche’s case was similar, but as others have said they didn’t sink to the level of naming the Cayenne a 911/Carrera. I’m sure a Cayenne Turbo GTS or whatever is super fast and capable but I just don’t respect it like I do a 911. I assume (probably often wrongly) that the 911 driver is a DRIVER, and the Cayenne driver wants “Porsche” but to be comfortable and carry the kids around town. In other words, they don’t want to compromise for driving fun the way a real enthusiast does. Apologies to Cayenne owners who are unfairly characterized by that.

The Mach-E is very obviously NOT a Mustang, sad that Ford is plundering our heritage for short term success. I’m sure it will be crazy fast and have high skidpad numbers but it’s huge and heavy and at heart a compromised SUV. It’s a Cayenne but with a 911 name and badging. Too much of this and the “Mustang” name loses its appeal after 55 years of success. Who do you respect more: The driver of a “Mustang” Mach-E or the driver of a Fiesta ST? For me it’s the Fiesta by far. I feel bad for ST owners whose FiST FoST FoRS cats have disappeared and replaced by truck-based vehicles with ST badging. I know, the cars weren’t selling and trucks/suv’s sell and Ford is a business...

If Ford were in dire financial straits I’d understand their move better, and would be happy with a “Mustang” Mach-E keeping our pony cars alive. But that’s not the case is it?

 

[Bikeman315]

Porsche’s case was similar, but as others have said they didn’t sink to the level of naming the Cayenne a 911/Carrera. I’m sure a Cayenne Turbo GTS or whatever is super fast and capable but I just don’t respect it like I do a 911. I assume (probably often wrongly) that the 911 driver is a DRIVER, and the Cayenne driver wants “Porsche” but to be comfortable and carry the kids around town. In other words, they don’t want to compromise for driving fun the way a real enthusiast does. Apologies to Cayenne owners who are unfairly characterized by that.

I'm not a Cayenne owner but know some and have driven them. It is an unfair characterization. Many 911, Cayman & Boxster owners has Cayenne's. And not just because they are comfortable and need a vehicle to carry the kids around (although it is and they do ). They are true performance vehicles. Go drive one and you will understand.

If Ford were in dire financial straits I’d understand their move better, and would be happy with a “Mustang” Mach-E keeping our pony cars alive. But that’s not the case is it?

Maybe not dire but their numbers could be a lot better. Will the Mach-E make that much of a difference? Probably not. Will it save our Mustang. Yeah, could very well be, if it is sucessful.

 

[Norm Peterson]

Sorry Norm but for better or worse our S550's are virtually controlled by its electronic systems. And our steering is electric. The good news is that the Mustang's engineers have taken all of this technology and still given us a car that feels like a car. Hopefully that will continue with the Mach-E and anything that comes after it.

Count on a CUV having electronic calibrations that are more intrusive than they are in a sedan or sporty car. More in charge of those bursts of acceleration, so you won't even be able to take any credit for what that big-power EV thing is best at.

I thought about posting this picture earlier, but it makes more sense now. What it shows is the difference between a stability control philosophy that's more tightly controlled vs one that's less so, in a lane change maneuver. Compare the slip angle trace vs the steering angle trace for the Blazer. Once getting the maneuver initiated, slip angle is nearly always out of step with what the driver is doing at the steering wheel. No way does that equate to "good handling". Not like it's up against a paragon of great handling for comparison, either (an Impala??? great handling??? Gimme a break.).

I wasn't going to get into EPAS either.
But FWIW, I now have something like 10,000 miles seat time in a car with EPAS (and a handful of miles in an EPAS-equipped Camaro). It's accurate enough, but like other cars with EPAS, little is offered in the way of road feel. At least the EPAS in my '19 doesn't seem to be saddled with the pull-drift and active nibble compensation electronic interferences that Ford has seen fit to include with their versions of EPAS since at least as far back as 2011, and it doesn't try to lie to me with heavy steering effort that they want me to confuse with steering feel (it isn't the same thing at all).


Norm

 

[tcman54]

Down here in the bowels of the Earth in what we call h*ll, can't get past the fact that it seems like it has frozen over.

Ponders what it means and gets back to daily duties.

TC

 

[EcoVert]

martinjlm do you have anything on a possible Corvette cuv/ suv ?

 

[Bikeman315]

Count on a CUV having electronic calibrations that are more intrusive than they are in a sedan or sporty car. More in charge of those bursts of acceleration, so you won't even be able to take any credit for what that big-power EV thing is best at.

I thought about posting this picture earlier, but it makes more sense now. What it shows is the difference between a stability control philosophy that's more tightly controlled vs one that's less so, in a lane change maneuver. Compare the slip angle trace vs the steering angle trace for the Blazer. Once getting the maneuver initiated, slip angle is nearly always out of step with what the driver is doing at the steering wheel. No way does that equate to "good handling". Not like it's up against a paragon of great handling for comparison, either (an Impala??? great handling??? Gimme a break.).

I wasn't going to get into EPAS either.
But FWIW, I now have something like 10,000 miles seat time in a car with EPAS (and a handful of miles in an EPAS-equipped Camaro). It's accurate enough, but like other cars with EPAS, little is offered in the way of road feel. At least the EPAS in my '19 doesn't seem to be saddled with the pull-drift and active nibble compensation electronic interferences that Ford has seen fit to include with their versions of EPAS since at least as far back as 2011, and it doesn't try to lie to me with heavy steering effort that they want me to confuse with steering feel (it isn't the same thing at all).


Norm

Norm we are all coming to conclusions that have zero basis in fact. A lot of people are so butthurt by Ford using our name that we cannot see anything else. Why don't we wait until the Mach-E is released, built, and tested. Then we can crap all over it.

By the way, when I owned an Infiniti G37x I test drove the then new Q50 with electric steering. It was horrible, worse than a video game. I recently drove a new Q50 and the steering was pretty damn good. All of these electronics can be adjusted to just about anything we want.

Edit; Change for Norm.

 

[Norm Peterson]

I'm not a Cayenne owner put know some and have driven them. It is an unfair characterization. Many 911, Cayman & Boxster owners has Cayenne's.

Performance levels notwithstanding, I doubt when the time came to consider a Cayenne that their 911/Cayman/Boxster was responsible for anything beyond brand loyalty.

If you were in the market for an Edge-sized SUV, would owning a Mustang have anything to do with specifically choosing the Edge over its competition other than from however much allegiance to Ford coming from already owning a Mustang?


Norm

 

[Bikeman315]

Performance levels notwithstanding, I doubt when the time came to consider a Cayenne that their 911/Cayman/Boxster was responsible for anything beyond brand loyalty.

If you were in the market for an Edge-sized SUV, would owning a Mustang have anything to do with specifically choosing the Edge over its competition other than from however much allegiance to Ford coming from already owning a Mustang?


Norm

Yes, of course it's about brand loyalty. When my friend with his GT2 needed a larger vehicle where do you think he would look first? That said, if the Cayenne (a Turbo in his case) wasn't as great a SUV as it is he would have looked elsewhere.

My wife has had Ford SUV/CUV's since 1998. Long before I bought my mustang. Why? It was the best vehicle for the money at the time. And yes we are Ford people. Since my 1966 Fairlane GTA. And when we are in the market for a new CUV, the Mach-E will be on the list. Because of my Mustang? Not really. Because it's a Ford? Definitely.

 

[Hayburner]

Is this nightmare over yet ? I’m patiently waiting for this extremely early April fools joke to be over

 

[Norm Peterson]

Norm we are all coming to conclusions that have zero basis in fact. We are all so butthurt by Ford using our name that we cannot see anything else. Why don't we wait until the Mach-E is released, built, and tested. Then we can crap all over it.

Speak for yourself, not for me, please. Seems pretty clear that anything that the CUV gains from this will be coming at the expense of the Mustang as the very definition of "ponycar".

By the way, when I owned an Infiniti G37x I test drove the then new Q50 with electric steering. It was horrible, worse than a video game. I recently drove a new Q50 and the steering was pretty damn good. All of these electronics can be adjusted to just about anything we want.​

No doubt that it's possible to improve EPAS. It's also possible to do things with EPAS that are completely outside what a steering system should do, more or less like having a little monkey with his own steering wheel between you at the real steering wheel and the wheels. Can't see this being a good thing unless you're already on board with being personally carted around autonomously. How many of these adjustments in EPAS calibrations are likely to be aimed at performance driving, vs how many toward making driving even more effortless (and mindless) for the masses?


Norm

 

[Hayburner]

Will this impact my decision to purchase a new Ford , let alone a mustang ? Damn right it will. It completely deterred me from purchasing a Ford , of anything. Sticking it to all of us high performance mustang owners , by putting that emblem and name on this , to me is Ford giving us the middle finger. If you’ve only ever owned a V6 you’re whole life , you couldnt probably care less. I came home from the hospital in the back of a 70 mach 1. These cars are my life. This is sickening

 

[Ericc B]

Personally I cannot grasp the fact that Bill Ford approved this. They must have drugged him or something.

 

[Norm Peterson]

Yes, of course it's about brand loyalty. When my friend with his GT2 needed a larger vehicle where do you think he would look first? That said, if the Cayenne (a Turbo in his case) wasn't as great a SUV as it is he would have looked elsewhere.

My wife has had Ford SUV/CUV's since 1998. Long before I bought my mustang. Why? It was the best vehicle for the money at the time. And yes we are Ford people. Since my 1966 Fairlane GTA. And when we are in the market for a new CUV, the Mach-E will be on the list. Because of my Mustang? Not really. Because it's a Ford? Definitely.

So neither you nor your friend needs your SUVs/CUVs to be tagged with your favorite car company's sportier nameplates in order to at least start your searches there. Got it.

This clusterf feels like it was taken straight out of the pages of an MBA textbook, where you learn about management in the absence of any real feel for product. Hmmmm . . . Steelcase . . . interchangeable executives.


Norm

 

[Ericc B]

Many 911, Cayman & Boxster owners has Cayenne's. And not just because they are comfortable and need a vehicle to carry the kids around (although it is and they do ). They are true performance vehicles. Go drive one and you will understand.

Yet none of those Cayennes are named 911. And that is because Porsche employs clever brand managers, whereas Ford employs idiot brand managers.

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