CA Emissions Standards to be revoked

[Bikeman315]

The problem is a special waiver was granted to California to set their own emissions standards. This waiver was subject to periodic review for necessity. This was not permanent from the start.

The role of the federal government is to allow a level playing ground. Granting special rules to specific areas is not leveling anything.

California can still pass laws to restrict what is sold in their state. Canceling this waiver has not effect on this.

Thank you. I didn't know that. Makes sense.

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[torqued]

Not a lawyer but I would've guessed a state making its own rules on cars might fall under interfering with interstate commerce. What's to stop a state from having their own crashworthiness standards or headlight standards then.

As for California in particular, all I know is I just paid $4.45 a gallon last night to fill up with 91 octane (the most we get). And that was at a cheaper station.

And they said on the local news that on Nov 1st the winter blend kicks in so it'll go even higher. I read that refineries have to make around 20 different blends for the various state regs. Maybe lowering that would lower prices.

 

[Coolmanfoo]

Well the federal government should keep it's nose out of state laws. California is an economic powerhouse and shouldn't be punished for that.

Also this thread is beyond stupid but let me just say, even with thought emissions Ford was able to produce a 460 hp beast that gets 28 mpg. Now they aren't challenged so they can drop quality.

But hey big win for Trump right? Let's just throw money at Ford and expect less from their engineers and let's get ready for that sweet sweet toxic air. Mmmm.

Look at photos of la from the 70s-80s and the come.back and talk emissions.

 

[Houston Kid]

And climate change is caused by man. If so, explain the ice age and that there were glaicers in the middle of the US during the ice age. I guess the cavemen's fires caused that.

Also cap off all volcanoes. They are polluters. Fine the offending country that would allow such activity.

LOL

God, we car enthusiasts are a smug bunch. The primary purpose of emission controls is to assure all of us have clean air to breath. Think about your spouses, children, grandchildren, etc. Have you seen pictures of the smog laden cities in China? That what emission controls are designed to prevent.
Other states have followed California’s rules because they understand this. The current federal governments rollbacks of environmental controls are not being done to help us. They are designed to allow those who benefit from these rollbacks to make more money. This should come as a surprise no one.

And yes, this should probably be moved to the members lounge.

 

[IronG]

Well the federal government should keep it's nose out of state laws. California is an economic powerhouse and shouldn't be punished for that.

Also this thread is beyond stupid but let me just say, even with thought emissions Ford was able to produce a 460 hp beast that gets 28 mpg. Now they aren't challenged so they can drop quality.

But hey big win for Trump right? Let's just throw money at Ford and expect less from their engineers and let's get ready for that sweet sweet toxic air. Mmmm.

Look at photos of la from the 70s-80s and the come.back and talk emissions.

I agree this thread is rather disingenuous being on a car enthusiast forum....at least in this part of the forum.

Just one note about your comment about California being an economic powerhouse and being treated unfairly. As much as I like the tax revenue California adds they are still a state in the union. Each state is equal in the ability it has for creating laws and no state should have more say because of its revenue potential. This is why there is two parts of Congress with one part having equal representation regardless of revenue, population etc. A big part of human nature is to gather around centers of power even if it is only for ones own agenda. The United States was founded to be for all people regardless of the power they wield. Too often those deemed "weak" get silenced by those with power. Just try to keep that in mind when you feel California has more of a right on how things should be done even if it does not benefit everyone. Off soapbox

 

[BlackandBlue]

Well the federal government should keep it's nose out of state laws. California is an economic powerhouse and shouldn't be punished for that.

Also this thread is beyond stupid but let me just say, even with thought emissions Ford was able to produce a 460 hp beast that gets 28 mpg. Now they aren't challenged so they can drop quality.

But hey big win for Trump right? Let's just throw money at Ford and expect less from their engineers and let's get ready for that sweet sweet toxic air. Mmmm.

Look at photos of la from the 70s-80s and the come.back and talk emissions.

You are ignorant as hell. I don’t blame you though. Most people just repeat what they hear. Very few actually want to know the truth.

I will blow you whole post up. A federal waiver is not a state law. The federal government doesn’t mess with state laws unless it violates precedent. California could outlaw cars if they wanted to. The feds couldn’t stop them.

For the record Trump isn’t changing California law or cancelling anything permanent. A waiver was granted during the Obama administrations that gave California special emissions rights enforced by the federal government. The waiver was setup for periodic review and subject to cancellation when it wasn’t needed anymore.


https://www.epa.gov/state-and-local...issions-california-waivers-and-authorizations

 

[Coolmanfoo]

I agree this thread is rather disingenuous being on a car enthusiast forum....at least in this part of the forum.

Just one note about your comment about California being an economic powerhouse and being treated unfairly. As much as I like the tax revenue California adds they are still a state in the union. Each state is equal in the ability it has for creating laws and no state should have more say because of its revenue potential. This is why there is two parts of Congress with one part having equal representation regardless of revenue, population etc. A big part of human nature is to gather around centers of power even if it is only for ones own agenda. The United States was founded to be for all people regardless of the power they wield. Too often those deemed "weak" get silenced by those with power. Just try to keep that in mind when you feel California has more of a right on how things should be done even if it does not benefit everyone. Off soapbox

That was actually very well written and thought provoking.

I totally understand your point and I think you're right. The only thing that is tricky is when you're in california you begin to see how much smog there is. La is famous for it and if you're anywhere in the central valley it's also very bad. A lot of that has to do with farm equipment and the semi trucks making their rounds.

So here we have any interesting dilemma. California produces half of the countries fresh produce and a huge amount of tax dollars at the expense of unhealthy air. If we the people of California want to focus on cleaner air we should be allowed to do so. But because ca is so huge it will have a ripple effect across the country.

Honestly it's a tough call and modern black and white politics don't help. At any rate i appreciate your comment!

 

[Coolmanfoo]

You are ignorant as hell. I don’t blame you though. Most people just repeat what they hear. Very few actually want to know the truth.

I will blow you whole post up. A federal waiver is not a state law. The federal government doesn’t mess with state laws unless it violates precedent. California could outlaw cars if they wanted to. The feds couldn’t stop them.

For the record Trump isn’t changing California law or cancelling anything permanent. A waiver was granted during the Obama administrations that gave California special emissions rights enforced by the federal government. The waiver was setup for periodic review and subject to cancellation when it wasn’t needed anymore.


https://www.epa.gov/state-and-local...issions-california-waivers-and-authorizations

You are ignorant as hell. I don’t blame you though. Most people just repeat what they hear. Very few actually want to know the truth.

I will blow you whole post up. A federal waiver is not a state law. The federal government doesn’t mess with state laws unless it violates precedent. California could outlaw cars if they wanted to. The feds couldn’t stop them.

For the record Trump isn’t changing California law or cancelling anything permanent. A waiver was granted during the Obama administrations that gave California special emissions rights enforced by the federal government. The waiver was setup for periodic review and subject to cancellation when it wasn’t needed anymore.


https://www.epa.gov/state-and-local...issions-california-waivers-and-authorizations

Lololol.

 

[Zelek]

Looking forward to running my catless headers without the headache of an emissions check every year. People who mod like this are a very low % of actual drivers on the road.

 

[CB18]

Ford doesn't have to give us all the California standards but they choose to do so. And on the window sticker it says California emissions at no charge. Sure Ford. I believe you. lol

 

[Bikeman315]

OK, so here we are;

Cobra Jet NJ
BmacIL IL
Devil5oh AZ
CB18 PA
NoVaGT VI
gameovergt FL (?)
Zelek TX
Houston Kid TX
EBM NC
Blackand Blue Southeast (somewhere)
IronG NJ
Bikeman315 SC

GregP27 CA
torqued CA
Coolmanfoo CA

We need to hear from more of our CA brothers and sisters to get their opinions. Heck, it's their state.

 

[Qcman17]

I tend to agree with what someone else said the fact these cars make the kind of power they do with their relative fuel efficiency is in no doubt the result of what CA has driven with emissions or at least partly so. I also remember the crazy LA smog from back in the 70's. I'm not offended by these emissions limitations personally as I'm not a modder and am happy with the car the way it is. I'd be surprised if company's actually made less efficient vehicles due to this for fear of wider consumer blow back against them. We are not the general public we are car enthusiasts, nerds/rednecks whatever term fits for us LOL but we are in the minority of the population. On the other hand this could lead to Ford finally releasing the Performance Pack tune for the 2018+.

 

[GregP27]

Somebody said Arizona has no exhaust laws. That's wrong. They have emission standards and, as long as you pass, they don't care if you have headers.

What you can't do is fail emissions and still drive around.

 

[Schwerin]

I tend to agree with what someone else said the fact these cars make the kind of power they do with their relative fuel efficiency is in no doubt the result of what CA has driven with emissions or at least partly so. I also remember the crazy LA smog from back in the 70's. I'm not offended by these emissions limitations personally as I'm not a modder and am happy with the car the way it is. I'd be surprised if company's actually made less efficient vehicles due to this for fear of wider consumer blow back against them. We are not the general public we are car enthusiasts, nerds/rednecks whatever term fits for us LOL but we are in the minority of the population. On the other hand this could lead to Ford finally releasing the Performance Pack tune for the 2018+.

Wasn't just LA. Look at Rocky. The air in Philly looked like a gray haze in the whole movie. Then look at the skyline NOW.


Also regarding the Performance Pack tune. Ford used to have 45 and 50 state legal ECU tunes. They did this with the 2000 ZX2 S/R it had a 45 state legal ECU that was rated 146HP and a 50 State rated 143. If you looked at the 2 in SCT Pro Race Package the difference was that the 45 state timing maps and fueling looked like a random mess that just had things sprinkled around and the powerband was choppy. Almost looked like a "my first tuning project". The 50 state was much smoother and clearly had been done by someone that looked at it and spent time properly revising it. It was generally better as the powerband was smoother, and drivability over all was better. At the time normally only the SVT products had ECU tuning that was properly smooth and developed. If you look at at 50 State Ford Taurus from the same time its similar. The timing/fuel look just put together then put out the door. Just smoothing out the timing and A/F makes the car much more drivable and idle smooth.

Ford also used to mix/match parts of their ECU codes. I have no idea why. I spent a lot of time looking at ZX2 ECU's and you would see that there were clearly like 4 or 5 base codes, and every other code was like the A/F from one with timing from another making like 20 possible ECU codes. It was almost like they were beta testing tuners on cars, and some of those tunes had at least 8 revisions, and there was like they were beta testing how to tune and wanted to see how many came back to the shop for problems. It was really weird and hard to understand why they were doing it.

Now if you look up ECU codes there are a lot less as there is no more 45 or 50 state. They just make it all 50 state and call it a day.

Due to this there are 2 things:
1) Ford can sell a 45 state legal tune if they want.
2) Having to do 50 state tuning meant that Ford had to spend time actually developing proper tuning for their ECU's in non-performance cars. They couldn't just slap on POS tunes that made goals and call it a day. This resulted in smoother power bands, slightly better performance and better emissions.

That said, I dont see any reason to think a performance pack tune for the 2018 would be anything more than the BULLITT ECU tune, so that's already certified. Cali isn't a hold up on that. Ford themselves are.

Also what is tighter? What Cali wants or UK/EU emissions? If UK/EU are tighter it will likely just be simple for Ford to go with Cali requirements as its easier to make a car that meets ALL emissions globally than make different ones to meet different requirements.

I mean why tune different Mustang ECUs to work in Cali, 45State and UK/EU, when they can just tune for EU knowing it will meet requirements everywhere? Saves, time and R&D money.

 

[Linkster1666]

Some people, some of you included, don't wake up and drive to work with a brown cloud in your face and over your city. Some of you do.

Those Horrible California and Colorado and Arizona regulations on emissions have made it so that Denver and Phoenix and LA are not as bad as they were 35 years ago, to the point you can see it.

I do know, I was there. Not to say that it's perfect, keep working on it.

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