VMPP heat exchanger with Roush SC

[Chainsaw]

I'll be calling VMP Performance about the phenolic spacers, and the FEAD bracket that's needed.

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[Toydoctor]

I'll be calling VMP Performance about the phenolic spacers, and the FEAD bracket that's needed.

I’d be interested in this as well. Too bad that the mod would require lowing engine mounts or a cowl induction hood.

I wanted to try a cooler thermostat also but figured the PCM would set a trouble code. Can you install a cooler thermostat without a tune?

 

[Chainsaw]

I’d be interested in this as well. Too bad that the mod would require lowing engine mounts or a cowl induction hood.

I wanted to try a cooler thermostat also but figured the PCM would set a trouble code. Can you install a cooler thermostat without a tune?

No tune is required for a 170° thermostat, but some have a tuner turn on their fans at a lower temp.

 

[Chainsaw]

No tune is required for a 170° thermostat, but some have a tuner turn on their fans at a lower temp.

If you're running pure water with a water pump lubricant, you can lower the fan on temps to give better boil over protection.

A coolant mixture of 50% water and 50% ethylene glycol has a boiling point of 223 degrees. A system with 15 psi cap will add 45 degrees for a final boiling point of 268 degrees.

At 15 psi, the boiling point of water rises from 212°F to 250°F.

 

[sy1462]

I'm still running the stock Roush HE and about all I've done is open up the front upper/lower grill, add water wetter and put in a 170 deg thermostat. My temps are in the same range as yours on an 85 degree day? Considering the larger heat exchanger, higher flowing pump, etc I was expecting a much larger improvement. I was going to do exactly what you have but am not sure it's worth my time/money now....

Please keep us posted on your progress.

 

[#1Roadking]

How does the 170 thermostat help? Is the clearance under the hood actually so tight that the spacers won’t fit or is it a safely precaution? Im bummed about the VMP heat exchanger not helping much, I really thought that was the silver bulletin.

 

[Chainsaw]

I'm still running the stock Roush HE and about all I've done is open up the front upper/lower grill, add water wetter and put in a 170 deg thermostat. My temps are in the same range as yours on an 85 degree day? Considering the larger heat exchanger, higher flowing pump, etc I was expecting a much larger improvement. I was going to do exactly what you have but am not sure it's worth my time/money now....

Please keep us posted on your progress.

It could be the fans on the VMP H/E. Department of Boost has done some extensive testing to reduce IAT2. I read there that without fans there is a 12% increase in air flow @ 28 MPH, and continues to increase the faster you go.

I went out for lunch yesterday. I was able to get on the highway without stopping. On my 8 mile drive on the highway my IAT2 never got above 105 with the ambient air at 85. Went through the drive through and my IAT2 climbed to 132. I get back on the highway and my IAT2 never goes below 115. Heat soaked and it doesn't recover well. I'm hoping isolating the heads from the blower with the phenolic spacers will help.

 

[Chainsaw]

How does the 170 thermostat help? Is the clearance under the hood actually so tight that the spacers won’t fit or is it a safely precaution? Im bummed about the VMP heat exchanger not helping much, I really thought that was the silver bulletin.

A 170° lowered my Cylinder Head Temperature by 10° while cruising. Less heat in the cylinder heads means less heat transferred to the blower. No idea how much space there is between the hood and the blower. The phenolic spacers are 8 MM thick, or 5/16 of an inch. I may have to lower the engine 1/4 inch.

 

[Chainsaw]

I called VMP and theres good news and bad news. The good news is they are shipping me the phenolic spacers. The bad news is there is no upper FEAD bracket available for using the spacers for the 18+.

The current FEAD bracket is made of cast aluminum. Cast aluminum doesn't weld very good. There is up to 25% of other metals in the alloy that act as contaminants. Not many welders will attempt to weld cast aluminum. It can be done but there are no guarantees. I work for GE Aviation as a machinist. I spoke to one of the best welders there and he wouldn't trust the outcome. He then suggested brazing the cast aluminum. He said he's had better success at brazing cast aluminum than welding it. After adding more material to the 2 lower hole bosses I can drill and spotface new holes. Option 2. I'm not too thrilled about is slotting the holes 5/32 up on the upper holes and down 5/32 on the lower holes, then spotfacing. The spotfaces will most likely go through the webbing and weaken the part. Option 3. Make a billet FEAD bracket. I'm not thrilled about this option either. I don't have any cnc machines available for me to do this, all manual. It will take a long time for me to do it on manual machines.

 

[Toydoctor]

I called VMP and theres good news and bad news. The good news is they are shipping me the phenolic spacers. The bad news is there is no upper FEAD bracket available for using the spacers for the 18+.

The current FEAD bracket is made of cast aluminum. Cast aluminum doesn't weld very good. There is up to 25% of other metals in the alloy that act as contaminants. Not many welders will attempt to weld cast aluminum. It can be done but there are no guarantees. I work for GE Aviation as a machinist. I spoke to one of the best welders there and he wouldn't trust the outcome. He then suggested brazing the cast aluminum. He said he's had better success at brazing cast aluminum than welding it. After adding more material to the 2 lower hole bosses I can drill and spotface new holes. Option 2. I'm not too thrilled about is slotting the holes 5/32 up on the upper holes and down 5/32 on the lower holes, then spotfacing. The spotfaces will most likely go through the webbing and weaken the part. Option 3. Make a billet FEAD bracket. I'm not thrilled about this option either. I don't have any cnc machines available for me to do this, all manual. It will take a long time for me to do it on manual machines.

I would love to try the spacers. I know a few people with 5 axis cnc mills. I would imagine there is intellectual property on this bracket.
Roush may allow a redesign. This could be sold as a kit as long as there was solid data to back up the mod.

I know the dodge and Chevy guys have already been doing this.

 

[WhiteyDog]

After talking with @Roh92cp a month ago or so, he said without a doubt that the phenolic spacers made the biggest difference. I guess I'm too d*mn lazy to take all that stuff apart, buy that FEAD bracket thing and motor mounts and put everything back together. I may however buy the VMP H/E without fans next time on sale which seems like less hassle to me. I'm at 26 - 30 degrees (IAT2) above ambient when at 83 - 89 degrees cruising and can handle the stop and go traffic pretty well with the temps climbing very little and then go back down. Heat soak hasn't been much of an issue for me if the car sits for a half hour to an hour. Temps eventually get down to my 26 -30 range. I'm at 10-11 psi boost and If I can get 10 degrees knocked off after installing the VMP H/E, I'd be pretty happy. Who knows, maybe I'll be too lazy for that too. I did enough sh*t to this thing already.

 

[Jmtoast]

Talked to Roush today and they said they had a new "cooler radiator" they just released for the 18+'s. I asked for information on it. Not sure how this will help beyond the VMP H/E.

 

[hlfbkd420]

would something like this be an option?

http://www.speedlogixstore.com/product-p/nos-16034nos.htm

 

[Jmtoast]

Below is the information I got from Roush. Price is something like $450.

Hello,
Per our earlier phone conversation today, below is the information on the Roush lower trans cooler ( Intercooler #1318-P1LTR-S) we discussed earlier today.

The new cooler is 40% larger than the old part and will help keep IAT2 temps down.

 

[WhiteyDog]

Below is the information I got from Roush. Price is something like $450.

Hello,
Per our earlier phone conversation today, below is the information on the Roush lower trans cooler ( Intercooler #1318-P1LTR-S) we discussed earlier today.

The new cooler is 40% larger than the old part and will help keep IAT2 temps down.

Yes, just found this out myself. It's a 40% larger heat exchanger in which they have some in stock, but they are so new the guy on the phone at Roush didn't have much info on it yet. They gave me an email address to send to the people who can answer some questions about it.

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