BBQ tick - another attempt to understand

[Snakes&horses]

Ok,question.... and I apologize if it seems stupid but, would ravenols 5w30 be better than the ravenol 5w20? I’m definitely not as well versed in the complexities of oils for our cars but would like to make as well as possible informed decision when it comes time for the first oil change. I did lookup ravenol 5w30 and also noticed there are several , rep,rsp,vmp,hcl,fo. Where it seems with the 5w20 there’s sfe and vfe.

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[18StangGT]

It's only been 2 days but I feel like the MC 5w30 synthetic blend has really quieted down my engine at idle. Does this MC oil contain the MoDTC or do I need to go full synthetic?

I was shocked to see how watery the factory oil was when I drained it. I always put 5w30 in my 2003 Mach 1 also which was also tick free. Some Mach 1 owners said they had it.

I always change my oil with the engine hot and fresh off a start from pulling it on ramps so any contamination is suspended in the hot oil that is about to be drained.

same here, since my 6th month mandatory dealer oil change to 5w30 shell ultra af full synth, engine has been purring like a kitten, virtually no ticks on idle cold start, warmed up sounds perfect.

i have a feeling 5w20 on hot climates such as here, the factory 5w20 oil is not ideal. Dealer offers only 5w30 here btw.

 

[Cobra Jet]

Well here's the inside of my factory oil filter. The glitter really crammed up in some corners. The pictures are hard to tell but in person it is littered with silver and copper colored flakes. Some I would call chunks. I'm going to call my dealer tomorrow.

How many accrued miles are on your vehicle?

Just remember if it’s low miles, *some* material will be normal due to engine break in during the first few thousand miles... in no way am I saying that your findings should not be of concern, but just laying the factual info out there for other folks who have never opened an oil filter and don’t know what to expect.

 

[GT Pony]

Ok,question.... and I apologize if it seems stupid but, would ravenols 5w30 be better than the ravenol 5w20? I’m definitely not as well versed in the complexities of oils for our cars but would like to make as well as possible informed decision when it comes time for the first oil change. I did lookup ravenol 5w30 and also noticed there are several , rep,rsp,vmp,hcl,fo. Where it seems with the 5w20 there’s sfe and vfe.

IMO, 5W-30 is a good viscosity to run in the Coyote. They are both rated "5W" for cold starts, but the 5W-30 will give better High Temp, High Shear (HTHS) properties, which will help protect the engine better when at full operating temperature.

 

[Snakes&horses]

IMO, 5W-30 is a good viscosity to run in the Coyote. They are both rated "5W" for cold starts, but the 5W-30 will give better High Temp, High Shear (HTHS) properties, which will help protect the engine better when at full operating temperature.

My car is kept in a garage,driven in summer only and will see spirited driving so 5w30 seems the way to go. From reading on here it sounds like the Ravenol oil is pretty good stuff ( not knocking the other choices) but when looking on their website there were a few choices. The 5w30 FDS looks like it would work, 3.0 HTHS , ACEA A5/B5 ..... https://www.ravenol.de/en/products/usage/d/Product/show/p/ravenol-fds-sae-5w-30.html .[/QUOTE]

 

[TheLion]

From the UOAs I've seen, Valvoline full synthetic shears down less than Motorcraft semi-synthetic. Some recent UOAs on the new dexos1 Gen2 Valvoline posted on BITOG showed it didn't shear down at all - KV100 of the used oil had barely changed .

Another good option then for more budget oriented owners and I know you can get Valvoline readily and at a good price. I ran their 5W-30 in my Power Packed Ecoboost back when I was rocking half an engine, never did a UOA but I didn't notice any increased mechanical noise from thinning, if there was thinning it wasn't enough for me to notice. But it's not PAO based, it is still a hydrocracked Group III to my knowledge unless they are blending in more PAO's or Esters along with it. That or they switched to High Density VI's which are most costly but are less prone to temporary and permanent shear.

What ever the case, they still don't match the HTHS film strength of PAO's and Ester blends from Ravenol and RedLine, so if high RPM protection is what you want, they are your best bets. Both are also ACEA A5/B5 spec oils, so their HTHS is 2.9 minimum (RedLine's is 3.0). Valvoline's is 2.7 if memory serves correctly, so about 7% thinner than Ravenol and 11% thinner than RedLine.

Ravenol is a little more versatile than RedLine in that it has a more robust additive package (higher base number and performs well in extended drain UOA's) and has better cold temp pump-ability (as good or better than AMSOIL's base stocks in the same viscosity). For cars that mostly are in warm climates like Texas or live their lives mostly as track cars, RedLine is the better choice as it provides just a little more film strength at 3.0 cSt. ACEA A5/B5 requires HTHS to be between 2.9 and 3.2.

My car is a dual purpose car and sees far more street than track, but I do drive it quite aggressively when possible, so it does see a decent amount of high RPM for anywhere from 5 to 15 minutes at a time fairly consistently with a lot of 3rd and 4th gear pulls.

Also I confirmed with Ravenol that their current 5W-20 on the US market is the old blend. USVO is brand new technology and just hit the market so once their existing stocks are used up they will switch over to their new USVO base stock formula. However their existing formula is still a PAO full synthetic, but does contain some high density VI's, but shows similar performance to AMSOIL in the UOA's I've seen, so it's pretty resistant to shear compared to Group III's. The nice thing is you get better HTHS with Ravenol than with AMSOIL and just as good of an additive package at about the same price point. I'm going to stock with ACEA A5/B5 spec oils for that reason. ACEA A5/B5 5W-20's have the same HTHS film strength as SAE spec 5W-30's....

 

[TheLion]

My car is kept in a garage,driven in summer only and will see spirited driving so 5w30 seems the way to go. From reading on here it sounds like the Ravenol oil is pretty good stuff ( not knocking the other choices) but when looking on their website there were a few choices. The 5w30 FDS looks like it would work, 3.0 HTHS , ACEA A5/B5 ..... https://www.ravenol.de/en/products/usage/d/Product/show/p/ravenol-fds-sae-5w-30.html .

[/QUOTE]

ACEA A5/B5 spec oils are a good bet, but if you want to stay in warranty just run an ACEA A5/B5 spec 5W-20 that is API licensed. Ravenol 5W-20 is API licensed, so you can get the protection of off the shelf SAE 5W-30's without voiding the warranty. Although I don't see why an ACEA A5/B5 spec 5W-30 would be an issue either especially for hot climates as GT Pony pointed out, the main difference is hot viscosity although 5W-30's tend to run more towards the thicker end of the 5W window, so 5W has a range of allowable viscosities and 5W-20's do flow slightly better than 5W-30's even though both meet the 5W spec. One is just biased a littler higher in the allowable range.

But looking at Ravenol 5W-30, looks like their cold temp pump ability is 3700 for 5W-20 and 3880 for 5W-30. only a 4.8% difference. HTHS at 100C is 10.2 for Ravenol's 5W-30 and 8.4 for their 5W-20, a 21% difference. However HTHS is 3.0 for 5W-30 and 2.9 for 5W-20, only a 4.4% difference, not much but some. Interestingly Ravenol's 5W-30 offers the same HTHS protection as RedLine's 5W-20 but better cold flow. Once their USVO technology hits US markets, you could probably use their 5W-30 as a legitimate track oil and still daily drive it as well.

But I would expect highway fuel economy of 5W-30 to be lower than with 5W-20 if you care because of the much higher viscosity at 100C (interestingly Clevite stated in an article their ideal viscosity at 100C is 10 cSt, the best balance between limiting drag losses and providing adequate protection), also power at the wheels may be slightly less due to higher pumping losses, but I'm not sure if it's enough to be measurable or not. I wonder if anyone has ever done a dyno run comparing 5W-20 to 5W-30 in the same engine?

 

[TheLion]

Well here's the inside of my factory oil filter. The glitter really crammed up in some corners. The pictures are hard to tell but in person it is littered with silver and copper colored flakes. Some I would call chunks. I'm going to call my dealer tomorrow.

That may actually be normal believe it or not. It's not ferrous, so it's either rod bearing material or possibly Zinc from the ZDDP as the tribo film breaks down. Looks up "gold ferry dust in catch cans". I get a bunch of it in my catch can at the bottom (about as much as you see in your filter) every 1,000 miles. It's been there ever since I added a can, before and after TriboTEX. There are tons of Camaros, Corvetts, Chargers and challengers that all get that in their catch cans every time. I'm not aware of any of them grenading either at an early life and there being any link between that and the issues.

I believe it may be normal wear from the rod bearings during cold start (first couple turns) and shut down when they make physical contact with the crank journal before the there is enough oil flowing for the hydrodynamic fluid film to form or when it collapses as you turn the engine off. It will be interesting to see if using the thicker Ravenol 5W-20 reduces that at all or it has no effect. I may even try 5W-30 once at the next change just an experiment to see if it changes even more but I suspect it won't make a difference.

 

[TheLion]

https://www.corvetteforum.com/forum...ert-do-you-have-fairy-dust-in-your-oil-4.html

https://www.challengertalk.com/forums/f188/metallic-particles-catch-can-602746/

https://www.cherokeesrt8.com/forums/5-wk1-srt8-general-discussion/20400-metal-dust-catchcan.html

http://www.clubcobra.com/forums/all-cobra-talk/137586-fine-metal-particles-pcv-catch-can.html

https://www.challengertalk.com/forums/f5/metal-catch-can-40563/

https://www.challengerforumz.com/threads/catch-can-oil-now-with-metal-shavings.67107/

 

[TheLion]

https://www.hotrod.com/articles/ctrp-0710-reading-the-signs/

 

[TheLion]

My guess is that if it is aluminum, which my "fairy dust" doesn't seem to be magnetic, it is from a combination of sources such as the pistons and rod bearings. Seems to be pretty common and moderate quantities of "fine" dust seems to be normal but large chunks or particles are more likely to indicate an issue. I would expect 2x as much dust out of the 5.0 as I would something like an Ecoboost 2.3L.

 

[TheLion]

Here's example where there is a problem (this is from a Miata Turbo with a spun bearing, see the very large "sheets" of aluminum or steel?):

The forum links I posted above show normal wear and tear, very fine dust, barely large enough to be visible. Looks like actual shiney dust particles.

Here is the original link: https://www.miataturbo.net/engine-performance-56/metal-flakes-oil-filter-65360/

It's quite a bit of a difference between what you see with a failed rod bearing and normal wear.

 

[TheLion]

Exhaust manifolds are the only thing that is different, I think. It'd be crazy if the tick was something loose hitting the side of the engine or a loose exhaust or something.

What about acoustics...I wonder if all of these 5.0's sound the same, but how that sound and what sounds resonate and where within the exhaust is different because the manifolds are different. I know the 5.0 uses an odd header config that was a compromise for balancing low rpm and high rpm flow one of the design documentaries on the 5.0.

 

[Snakes&horses]

Thank you Lion for taking the time to thoroughly explain everything. The insight definitely helps and is greatly appreciated

 

[GT Pony]

What about acoustics...I wonder if all of these 5.0's sound the same, but how that sound and what sounds resonate and where within the exhaust is different because the manifolds are different. I know the 5.0 uses an odd header config that was a compromise for balancing low rpm and high rpm flow one of the design documentaries on the 5.0.

If the ticking was caused by OEM header acoustics, I would think that ticking wouldn't magically start happening right after an oil change. Headers and an oil change are not connected in any way.

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