Road and Track Article on the PP2 - It's not a track car

[w3rkn]

Your suggestion of a "homebrew PP3" involves spending $4500 on brakes, which doesn't even leave enough left over for wheels and tires, the MOST SIGNIFICANT FACTOR in a car's cornering ability.

2018 Ford Performance Catalog (online)

Kit includes: (page 33)
• GT350R front calipers
• GT350R front rotors
• GT350R front brake pads
• Front caliper adapters
• GT350R rear calipers
• GT350R rear rotors
• GT350R rear brake pads
• GT350R parking brake assemblies
• Rear GT350R knuckle
• GT350R axle assembly

Going deeper into the corners is a mainstay of tracking your car.


It is also understood, that track tires are replaced several times a year and most people have a second set of wheels, regardless.

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[Norm Peterson]

And that's exactly why this isn't a car suited for you, nor is a GT350R, or a Z/28. Those are cars that are meant to be street legal sunday drivers that can be used as a serious track weapon then driven home. Being well rounded is the sole purpose of this car.

We must be defining "well-rounded" somewhat differently. What I was getting at before was that the compromises that go toward wider street/daily driving acceptability among the car-buying public at large just aren't among the things I look for in a car when I'm putting together a short list and weeding out the also-rans. The PP2's drivetrain cooling probably excepted, it's among the few US Domestic cars that's at least reasonably track-able much beyond the novice level without having to make wholesale modifications, which is what earns it a spot on the short list.

If you want a pure track weapon, buy a base mustang, add coilovers, big brakes, wide wheels and slicks, and strip the interior.

My '08 wasn't base but has been slowly following this path. Most of the non-base stuff either doesn't get used much/at all or has been given a DIY "work-around" to be better suited for track day purposes.

Get a tow rig and trailer while you're at it. anything less is a compromise.

I guess I don't need as much compromise away from 'all-out track' as most, before I wouldn't drive it on the street without self-imposed restriction. I could still DD the RPDE car I once drove if the cage was removed (replacing the lost stiffness somehow), side glass installed, the doors made to open again, and the engine detuned a bit and put into a semblance of emissions compliance.


Norm

 

[Norm Peterson]

The enthusiast in me agrees with you, but that just isn’t realistic in even the GT350 (non-R; arguably the R) or SS 1LE. Unless you take a ZL1 1LE approach, the car has to be daily driveable in three seasons.

Other than true street tires I can't think of anything that either of the GT350s or a Z/28 lacks that I'd miss in my DD . . . for one car anyway, I don't even need rear seating. But I bet I could find a few things that are present in each of those cars that I could easily do without. I'm thinking in terms of at least 3-season use here (NJ).


Norm

 

[Arthonon]

Apologies if this has been posted, and/or doesn't apply, but it's a PP2 review from AutoWeek. I don't really know anything about them, and it doesn't look like an in-depth analysis, but I thought it might be another data point in this discussion:

http://autoweek.com/article/car-reviews/2018-ford-mustang-performance-pack-level-2-first-track-drive

 

[NorthernBeast]

Great car. That's pretty close to what I was thinking. I wonder how the aero is with the Roush splitter and stock wing? Did Roush advertise theirs as providing additional downforce? I was thinking GT350R rear wing and some kind of front splitter that actually provides solid downforce. I was looking at Hankook RS4 tires.

Hearing more and more of these reports with the 10R80 is getting me excited for the possibilities.

The Roush 3-Piece front Splitter is functional and adds downforce. Roush tested the package in a wind tunnel and it comes with extra hardware and supports to reinforce it due to the amount it creates

 

[WildHorse]

Yet, even after that $6500, you'd still have to add $1000 for a diff cooler, which is the main point for people bitching about the PP2 not being a bargain.

Well you can pic up a aftermarket universal trans cooler that comes with the lines and fittings for $100, buy a couple A/N fittings for the fill/drain on the pumpkin for $20, a cheap 12v electric pump for $50, wiring/ SP/ST switch, copy the factory install and away you go. No need for a fan.

 

[jake_zx2]

I have an 18 GT PP1 10R80 with Magneride and I have tracked my car on multiple occasions without any problems. I can go out and run for 20+ minutes of hard lapping without any over heating issues but I keep my eye on temp's and do proper cool down laps after every 7-8 laps just to be safe. The car has been able to come within .6 of a second of a GT350 (same track & driver) after only 3 hot laps and I was told it had more in it had we had more time behind the wheel.

I was looking to build a 10R80 PP2 style car since it wasn't offered when I was shopping. The parts I added were:

SVE S350 19x10/11 Wheels
Michelin PSS 295/305 Tires
Ford Performance M-5300-W GT350 springs for Magneride cars
Roush 3 piece front splitter + high flow lower grill
JLT V3.0 Oil Separator
Cervinis Upper Grill

I plan on the following upgrades over this winter:

JLT Cold Air
Ford Performance X-Pipe
Dyno Tune
Baer 2-Piece Front Brake Rotors

Instagram is @northernbeast_s550

Any chance you'd want to sell me some stock parts? If so, I'll shoot you a PM with what I'm looking for

 

[jake_zx2]

2018 Ford Performance Catalog (online)

Kit includes: (page 33)
• GT350R front calipers
• GT350R front rotors
• GT350R front brake pads
• Front caliper adapters
• GT350R rear calipers
• GT350R rear rotors
• GT350R rear brake pads
• GT350R parking brake assemblies
• Rear GT350R knuckle
• GT350R axle assembly

Going deeper into the corners is a mainstay of tracking your car.


It is also understood, that track tires are replaced several times a year and most people have a second set of wheels, regardless.

I understand what all that kit is improving. What I'm saying is that braking, while an important aspect of a high performance car, will shave tenths of a second off a lap at most, whereas the jump from 235 all seasons to 305 R-comps would shave FULL SECONDS. track tires being replaced has no significance in this conversation, as we're talking about if you can spend $6500, drive to the track, and run faster times consistently than a PP2 in one track day (which, as I've already shown, won't happen)

 

[2018OFPP1?2]

Though the clutch on the PP2 I test drove was tough for me to get used to. Driving again tomorrow as well as an auto car.

The clutch engagement on the S550 just sucks in general. Completely numb. The Steeda spring helps, and you do get used to it *eventually*.

I felt like a newb driving it for about a month, and I've been driving manuals for over 30 years.

 

[sigintel]

18 GT PP1 10R80 with Magneride
within .6 of a second of a GT350 (same track & driver)

Michelin PSS 295/305 Tires
Ford Performance M-5300-W GT350 springs for Magneride cars
Roush 3 piece front splitter + high flow lower grill

Uhhhh on PSS? 295/303? Dayummz...
PP1 driver have columbian driver mod going?
They kinda frown on that.
I have seen 2-3 seconds difference on same GT350 just PSS vs SC2 at MSRH

 

[mustang5o]

The Roush 3-Piece front Splitter is functional and adds downforce. Roush tested the package in a wind tunnel and it comes with extra hardware and supports to reinforce it due to the amount it creates

Very nice. Just checked out their stuff tonight. They didn't say they tested the rear spoiler so I'm wondering what would work to balance out the car well. They do have that lower valance add-on that's supposed to help.

The clutch engagement on the S550 just sucks in general. Completely numb. The Steeda spring helps, and you do get used to it *eventually*.

I felt like a newb driving it for about a month, and I've been driving manuals for over 30 years.

Yeah, I'm at 31 years driving manual and this was the hardest one to get used to. Second test drive got a little better.

 

[w3rkn]

I understand what all that kit is improving. What I'm saying is that braking, while an important aspect of a high performance car, will shave tenths of a second off a lap at most, whereas the jump from 235 all seasons to 305 R-comps would shave FULL SECONDS. track tires being replaced has no significance in this conversation, as we're talking about if you can spend $6500, drive to the track, and run faster times consistently than a PP2 in one track day (which, as I've already shown, won't happen)

correct^

But again, comp tires last how long? Buying a second set of wheels and tires is going to happen regardless, not really an added cost.

 

[saleen367]

Yeah, I'm at 31 years driving manual and this was the hardest one to get used to. Second test drive got a little better.

Made me feel like a newb all over again as well.

 

[nastang87xx]

And that's exactly why this isn't a car suited for you, nor is a GT350R, or a Z/28. Those are cars that are meant to be street legal sunday drivers that can be used as a serious track weapon then driven home. Being well rounded is the sole purpose of this car.

There are plenty of GT350R owners who drive their car on more days than Sunday. Maybe saving the pussy for the next guy is your thing but it's not everyone's.

 

[lightrules]

1st post, gotta start somewhere. question: any one know how much the magneride costs to maintain or how much more over regular struts etc it costs to replace/repair, more long term? trying to decide on this if/when i eventually order/buy a GT. if there is another thread where this is mentioned pls send me there. i couldnt find anything with search.

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