Guess what? Motortrend favors the Camaro again

[bootlegger]

With $7500 down correct?

I believe it was around $4k down when I was looking in October/November 2017. Still a damn great deal.

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[millhouse]

Neither company offers 20% of either car. GM did a couple years ago to move 16’s off the lot when 17s were coming in. And that promotion was ALL CHEVROLETS except Corvette and some SUVs, so not a Camaro thing. A lot of Camaro buyers were waiting for the same thing to happen when 18s were coming in. When the 20% deal came along Camaros, Corvettes, and some SUVs were EXCLUDED and a lot of people were disappointed.

The only song that plays louder than the “Camaros are discounted everywhere” song on Mustang 6 is the “Why can’t I get a better deal?” song on Camaro 6. Methinks the truth lies somewhere in between.

The early bird catches the bird Eh? ;)

But seriously, with the 170 day surplus of cars...they (chevy) did do some heavy discounts on 16's. As for ZL1's, go into the ZL1 forum and there were regular threads on deals people were getting. These weren't national level discounts, but rather local deal (much like koons) from dealers looking to move cars.

Here is a thread that mentions ZL1's going for $7k-$8k off MSRP and an idividual that picked up his ZL1 1LE for $12k off MSRP.

https://www.camaro6.com/forums/showthread.php?t=529712&highlight=deal

And autotrader is littered with new ZL1's well under MSRP. Maybe not 20%, but you can find them at or above 10% off all day.

 

[bluebeastsrt]

Neither company offers 20% of either car. GM did a couple years ago to move 16’s off the lot when 17s were coming in. And that promotion was ALL CHEVROLETS except Corvette and some SUVs, so not a Camaro thing. A lot of Camaro buyers were waiting for the same thing to happen when 18s were coming in. When the 20% deal came along Camaros, Corvettes, and some SUVs were EXCLUDED and a lot of people were disappointed.

The only song that plays louder than the “Camaros are discounted everywhere” song on Mustang 6 is the “Why can’t I get a better deal?” song on Camaro 6. Methinks the truth lies somewhere in between.

Without trying to twist your words. So your saying GM did offer 20% off? And secondly. Camaros were included in that 20% off promotion?

 

[4V Mayhem]

Koon's is a volume dealer and not the norm. Down here, epic Mustang deals are rare. Challengers have been, and continue to be, the deepest discounted of the 3. I can lease a Hellcat right now for far less than a 60 mo financing payment on a $42k Mustang. it was tempting when I ordered my car.

I listed Koon's as an example that is actually more the norm than the exception. Like I asked, how many people on here for the past 3 years bragged about getting Mustangs way below MSRP while the Chevy dealerships would not budge on the price?

When was the last time you heard of Ford offering 20% off? Never right? Ever hear of Kerbeck chevrolet? They offer several thousand off msrp on Corvettes. Whats your point? Its called volume discount.

None of that is what I asked you. You straight up threw an insult at me calling me a "nitwit". Yet you seem unable to answer the question. I'll ask you again. Can you tell me exactly how much GM is losing based solely off the sales numbers?

Without trying to twist your words. So your saying GM did offer 20% off? And secondly. Camaros were included in that 20% off promotion?

Yet here I am waiting for you to answer my question. Funny thing is that you guys here were the very same ones criticizing the Camaros and Chevy dealerships for NOT offering discounts and praising the Ford dealerships for pumping out GTs and EBs below MSRP. Now all of a sudden you're criticizing Chevy for offering discounts. So which is it? And don't sit here denying any of this. People all over this forum and all on FB pages/groups were talking about how they were getting Mustangs for thousands off MSRP. So now all of a sudden it's a bad thing??

 

[02gtnh]

Without trying to twist your words. So your saying GM did offer 20% off? And secondly. Camaros were included in that 20% off promotion?

Ford didn’t offer 20% off, but you got 0% financing for 72 months plus rebates which was just as good.:cheers:

 

[bluebeastsrt]

I listed Koon's as an example that is actually more the norm than the exception. Like I asked, how many people on here for the past 3 years bragged about getting Mustangs way below MSRP while the Chevy dealerships would not budge on the price? And your proof that it's the norm and not the exception is. People bragging on the internet? I suppose you did a pole over here at mustang6 or something to come up with that assumption??

None of that is what I asked you. You straight up threw an insult at me calling me a "nitwit". Yet you seem unable to answer the question. I'll ask you again. Can you tell me exactly how much GM is losing based solely off the sales numbers? No I can not tell you exactly how much GM is losing anymore that anyone from Camaro6 knows that GM is making more profit per unit. But that seams to be a Camaro owners war cry. However pure common sense dictates that when your getting out sold by 20-40K cars a year. Your not making as much as your competitor Ford. Next question.

Yet here I am waiting for you to answer my question. Funny thing is that you guys here were the very same ones criticizing the Camaros and Chevy dealerships for NOT offering discounts and praising the Ford dealerships for pumping out GTs and EBs below MSRP. Now all of a sudden you're criticizing Chevy for offering discounts. So which is it? And don't sit here denying any of this. People all over this forum and all on FB pages/groups were talking about how they were getting Mustangs for thousands off MSRP. So now all of a sudden it's a bad thing??

Now since I answered your question above. A couple questions for you. Why is GM having such an issue moving Camaros? In comparison to Mustangs and Challengers? Is it GM's business plan to Be dead last in pony car sales? Why did the 2016 Camaro need 20% off to move inventory on a car in it's first year of a production cycle? When that car seen a huge increase in performance over the 5th gen? Camaro owners used to like to use the price difference as the issue. But V8 challengers have always been as expensive. And the 18 Mustang is now just as expensive as the Camaro. Yet Both are still outselling Camaro. I'll tell you why Camaros aren't selling. Since you can't admit it. Nobody want's to ride inside the Camaro! Because of the horrible interior and sightlines!

 

[bootlegger]

Now since I answered your question above. A couple questions for you. Why is GM having such an issue moving Camaros? In comparison to Mustangs and Challengers? Is it GM's business plan to Be dead last in pony car sales? Why did the 2016 Camaro need 20% off to move inventory on a car in it's first year of a production cycle? When that car seen a huge increase in performance over the 5th gen? Camaro owners used to like to use the price difference as the issue. But V8 challengers have always been as expensive. And the 18 Mustang is now just as expensive as the Camaro. Yet Both are still outselling Camaro. I'll tell you why Camaros aren't selling. Since you can't admit it. Nobody want's to ride inside the Camaro! Because of the horrible interior and sightlines!

GM has always been about a decade behind with interiors. My friend has an early model Z06. It is one of the cheapest interiors I have every seen in a sporty car. Even the 5th gen Camaro had an interior that was atrocious. I mean who designs this crap:

 

[martinjlm]

Without trying to twist your words. So your saying GM did offer 20% off? And secondly. Camaros were included in that 20% off promotion?

Just to make certain my words are NOT twisted...in the transition from 2016 to 2017, Chevrolet offered 20% off MOST vehicles, including Camaro. In 2017 - 2018 transition, Chevrolet offered 20% of MOST vehicles, NOT INCLUDING Camaro.

 

[martinjlm]

No I can not tell you exactly how much GM is losing anymore that anyone from Camaro6 knows that GM is making more profit per unit. But that seams to be a Camaro owners war cry. However pure common sense dictates that when your getting out sold by 20-40K cars a year. Your not making as much as your competitor Ford. Next question

This guy can. I’ve been in the meetings where program performance is discussed. Regardless how many all-knowing people on Mustang6 say “ATP is not relevant” I can assure of three things

• ATP is a primary measure of how every vehicle team in GM is measured for performance to plan
• Camaro is meeting its ATP targets
• Camaro WOULD like higher sales, but not at the trade off of lower ATP. Selling a lot more at significantly lower profit is not as beneficial as selling a few more at a high ATP.

And no, I will not disclose how much that is. Even though I am retired from that job, I still interact with people there. Plus it would be unethical and probably even illegal for me to provide that info.

 

[bluebeastsrt]

Just to make certain my words are NOT twisted...in the transition from 2016 to 2017, Chevrolet offered 20% off MOST vehicles, including Camaro. In 2017 - 2018 transition, Chevrolet offered 20% of MOST vehicles, NOT INCLUDING Camaro.

Thank you. I dont recall asking about 2018 in particular. But thank you for clearing that up.

 

[Hack]

This guy can. I’ve been in the meetings where program performance is discussed. Regardless how many all-knowing people on Mustang6 say “ATP is not relevant” I can assure of three things

• ATP is a primary measure of how every vehicle team in GM is measured for performance to plan
• Camaro is meeting its ATP targets
• Camaro WOULD like higher sales, but not at the trade off of lower ATP. Selling a lot more at significantly lower profit is not as beneficial as selling a few more at a high ATP.

And no, I will not disclose how much that is. Even though I am retired from that job, I still interact with people there. Plus it would be unethical and probably even illegal for me to provide that info.

All due respect - I don't think you answered the comment you quoted. Blue beast said Ford is making more profits, based on the additional quantities they are selling. You said Camaro meets its targets.

Two different things.

 

[Strokerswild]

GM has always been about a decade behind with interiors. My friend has an early model Z06. It is one of the cheapest interiors I have every seen in a sporty car. Even the 5th gen Camaro had an interior that was atrocious. I mean who designs this crap:

I had a 1-year-old Equinox for a loaner one afternoon last week when the SO's VW was in for an oil change. Wow, did I hate the interior in that thing. Ugly, cheesy, and horribly put together.

Gutless, coarse engine and noisy ride too, like a low-end vehicle compared to the VeeDub. I had a notion that GM's stuff had improved lately. Not necessarily so.

Back to the topic at hand, carry on.....

 

[martinjlm]

All due respect - I don't think you answered the comment you quoted. Blue beast said Ford is making more profits, based on the additional quantities they are selling. You said Camaro meets its targets.

Two different things.

Very good point. I mis-read his statement to be that nobody would know if Chevy is making profits on Camaro. But, as you point out, I don’t know which company is making more profits on their specific vehicles. I don’t think anyone at either company could answer that question.

 

[White_GT_CS]

Just to make certain my words are NOT twisted...in the transition from 2016 to 2017, Chevrolet offered 20% off MOST vehicles, including Camaro. In 2017 - 2018 transition, Chevrolet offered 20% of MOST vehicles, NOT INCLUDING Camaro.

Just an FYI: I was offered a 20% discount off of a 2018 Camaro 2SS just a month ago. The dealer called me last week saying they'll give me even a better price for my trade-in.

Camaro sales are hurting, at least around my area. Even the 1LE can be had for a serious discount.

 

[bluebeastsrt]

And to your point of higher ATP jim. I dont see how having product sit on the lots for an extended period of time. To the point that you need to offer a 20% discount. Is that also part of the fantastic ATP business plan? Seams counter productive.

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