Alignment Specs

[shiparino]

Brand new to this forum. I just added the following suspension components to my 17 GT PP:

• Steeda adjustable struts/shocks - set in the middle
• Steeda progressive springs
• Steeda Anti-Sway Bars (front and rear) - set in the middle
• Steeda Camber/Caster plates

Had the car aligned per factory specs, but now it doesn't really feel right. Somewhat vague on-center, which is bumming me out. I no longer feel 100% confident cornering on my morning commute.

Are there different specs for a lowered car?

Thanks in advance for any advice.

Sponsored

 

[ronemca]

I would like to meet the tech who re-aligned your car - it is my belief that he did you a disservice.

 

[whalesalad]

What kind of tires are you on? How many miles on them pre-mods? I'm inclined to think with all the mods and, assuming a dialed-in/correct alignment, you might be exposing uneven wear patterns in the tires.

Or it was aligned well on the rack and then something wasn't tight enough and slipped.

Might try taking it back to the alignment shop to see if it's still in-spec.

 

[NightmareMoon]

Factory specs are /really/ wide tolerances, so if you have a photo of the alignment sheet that would help.

Vague on-center steering is nearly always just having too much front toe in (0 toe is what you want). knowing where your current alignment sits would help us figure out where the car is at.

Alignment aside, if you want it to, go to a less stiff setting on the rear swaybar (yes, less stiff) and just slightly stiffen the front shocks. Probably tho it just needs the right performance-oriented alignment.

 

[shiparino]

Numbers from the second alignment

I had the first alignment done and wasn't happy with it and also added the CC Plates after that. These are the numbers from the second alignment. It feels better after adding the CC Plates, but still not as good as it did from the factory or even after adding the components, but before the first alignment.

@ whalesalad - The car has ~15k miles. Running the OEM Pirelli's. Fronts are original and have a fair amount of tread left. One rear has about 4k, due to a tire shop issue when "fixing" a flat. The other rear tire is new, because I didn't want them to get any farther out of sync.

@ NightmareMoon - I'll try tightening down the front struts and backing off the rear sway bar, but this feeling definitely started after the alignment. Driving to the shop after the initial install, the car still felt like stock. I had the first shop recheck their work and they stood behind their work/numbers. The second shop actually only charged me half price because they said it was very close to spec, even after I installed the CC Plates.

@ ronemca - Yeah, it was hard to argue with the numbers, since the issue is a feeling. I tried explaining it to several people at the shop and took a test drive with them, but no luck. So I moved on.

Thanks again for weighing in.

 

[Coyote Red]

The rear camber is too much for the street, dial it back to -1.4 as is the front and it will balance the pony.

 

[BmacIL]

The rear camber is too much for the street, dial it back to -1.4 as is the front and it will balance the pony.

Agreed, and the rest looks spot on.

That isn't what's causing vagueness in steering though. Some is probably the progressive springs, which are quite soft in initial rate. I'd go with what's suggested also, go to soft on the rear bar. Middle on the shocks should be plenty firm on rebound for good response.

 

[wildcatgoal]

Factory specs are /really/ wide tolerances, so if you have a photo of the alignment sheet that would help.

Vague on-center steering is nearly always just having too much front toe in (0 toe is what you want). knowing where your current alignment sits would help us figure out where the car is at.

Alignment aside, if you want it to, go to a less stiff setting on the rear swaybar (yes, less stiff) and just slightly stiffen the front shocks. Probably tho it just needs the right performance-oriented alignment.

Disagree. I've had 0 front toe on my car and the car was terrible to drive - literally the alignment sheet said 0 for toe up front and this was the premier alignment shop in Atlanta area (Gran Turismo). It had no on-center feel.

I had Steeda do my alignment the next time and ended up with 1/16 toe in up front, 0 toe in the rear and the thing will damn near drive itself and my tire wear has been wonderful.

Anyway, I also had my car re-aligned to "factory specs" once for a winter when I daily drove it and it was not confidence inspiring. When I had my track alignment re-done, the beginning spec sheet was all over the place. I had a Ford dealer align to factory specs and he just half-assed it, for sure.

You don't need the camber I have (nor can you achieve it up front since you don't have camber plates), but I have 1/16 toe in up front, 0 toe rear, -2.3/-2.4 front camber, -1.8/-1.9 rear camber. Love how it drives on the street and on track. One day I'll try toe OUT up front since so many use it, but... I really don't suspect that'll make any worthwhile difference.

 

[wildcatgoal]

That isn't what's causing vagueness in steering though. Some is probably the progressive springs, which are quite soft in initial rate.

I've installed Steeda Progressives in 5 cars at this point and the only one who had a complaint was the one who refused to get an alignment and his complaint was his front tires wore on the inside quickly (and with this guy I installed camber plates, too, and eyeballed the camber I locked them it at with a ruler, haha). Not a single one of them has ever told me they have "vagueness" in steering (after their alignment from either Steeda themselves, GTE, or a couple guys we know at Ford dealers that know what they're doing) and in fact have all said the steering was far less vague vs. factory and a couple have been known to whip through mountain runs and get asked how on earth a Mustang was on their Porsche's ass. Not buying the assertion about the Progressive springs contributing anything to the problem here. My car, from the dealership lot, felt too vague on-center driving the 900 miles home from where I got it. Alignment...

Now, you can of course increase steering response feel with stiffer and stiffer front springs, sure. Swift Spec R springs had a higher front rate than my Steeda Ultralites and there was a noticeable difference but I also needed to get an alignment immediately as it had poor on-center and tracking and seemed to bumpsteer or tramline like a son of a bitch (until I had the alignment fixed up). But you're still going to have a vague on-center feel if your alignment isn't appropriate for the car and driver preferences.

As we all know, hopefully, you can make a car feel vague compared to before doing nothing to any setting or part except changing to a softer sidewall tire. That happens when I put my Conti DWS tires on and is why I run them at 2 psi higher than factory specs (OEM size tires on PP wheels).

I can adjust my sway bars from full stiff to full soft and not have a vague feeling in any setting. Sway bars are for body role, they don't solve for alignments that a given driver's preferences do not agree with.

Know what really helped? The front upper control arm bearing. That really locked in steering confidence in my car. It's not a "no NVH" mod, though. Regular driving, fine. If you hit some rough road, you'll hear it.

 

[wildcatgoal]

I had the first alignment done and wasn't happy with it and also added the CC Plates after that. These are the numbers from the second alignment. It feels better after adding the CC Plates, but still not as good as it did from the factory or even after adding the components, but before the first alignment.

@ whalesalad - The car has ~15k miles. Running the OEM Pirelli's. Fronts are original and have a fair amount of tread left. One rear has about 4k, due to a tire shop issue when "fixing" a flat. The other rear tire is new, because I didn't want them to get any farther out of sync.

@ NightmareMoon - I'll try tightening down the front struts and backing off the rear sway bar, but this feeling definitely started after the alignment. Driving to the shop after the initial install, the car still felt like stock. I had the first shop recheck their work and they stood behind their work/numbers. The second shop actually only charged me half price because they said it was very close to spec, even after I installed the CC Plates.

@ ronemca - Yeah, it was hard to argue with the numbers, since the issue is a feeling. I tried explaining it to several people at the shop and took a test drive with them, but no luck. So I moved on.

Thanks again for weighing in.

1/16 toe in. I HATED 0 toe up front. Absolutely hated it.

 

[HISSMAN]

I will never install anything but a linear on my cars. The consistency and firmness outweighs the ride comfort for me.

 

[SteedaTech]

Brand new to this forum. I just added the following suspension components to my 17 GT PP:

• Steeda adjustable struts/shocks - set in the middle
• Steeda progressive springs
• Steeda Anti-Sway Bars (front and rear) - set in the middle
• Steeda Camber/Caster plates

Had the car aligned per factory specs, but now it doesn't really feel right. Somewhat vague on-center, which is bumming me out. I no longer feel 100% confident cornering on my morning commute.

Are there different specs for a lowered car?

Thanks in advance for any advice.

Definitely sounds like alignment related. pm your contact info and i will go over different alignment specs and advantages. I have seen several specs shown on this forum to find out the alignment machine to be way out of calibration giving erroneous info. Here at Steeda we have our two alignment machines calibrated every 90 days.

Steeda Tech

 

[BmacIL]

I've installed Steeda Progressives in 5 cars at this point and the only one who had a complaint was the one who refused to get an alignment and his complaint was his front tires wore on the inside quickly (and with this guy I installed camber plates, too, and eyeballed the camber I locked them it at with a ruler, haha). Not a single one of them has ever told me they have "vagueness" in steering (after their alignment from either Steeda themselves, GTE, or a couple guys we know at Ford dealers that know what they're doing) and in fact have all said the steering was far less vague vs. factory and a couple have been known to whip through mountain runs and get asked how on earth a Mustang was on their Porsche's ass. Not buying the assertion about the Progressive springs contributing anything to the problem here. My car, from the dealership lot, felt too vague on-center driving the 900 miles home from where I got it. Alignment...

Now, you can of course increase steering response feel with stiffer and stiffer front springs, sure. Swift Spec R springs had a higher front rate than my Steeda Ultralites and there was a noticeable difference but I also needed to get an alignment immediately as it had poor on-center and tracking and seemed to bumpsteer or tramline like a son of a bitch (until I had the alignment fixed up). But you're still going to have a vague on-center feel if your alignment isn't appropriate for the car and driver preferences.

As we all know, hopefully, you can make a car feel vague compared to before doing nothing to any setting or part except changing to a softer sidewall tire. That happens when I put my Conti DWS tires on and is why I run them at 2 psi higher than factory specs (OEM size tires on PP wheels).

I can adjust my sway bars from full stiff to full soft and not have a vague feeling in any setting. Sway bars are for body role, they don't solve for alignments that a given driver's preferences do not agree with.

Know what really helped? The front upper control arm bearing. That really locked in steering confidence in my car. It's not a "no NVH" mod, though. Regular driving, fine. If you hit some rough road, you'll hear it.

Thanks for the book. Not saying the springs are the driving item behind the vagueness, just that the low initial rate can contribute to a less responsive feel (fact). Also, we are all trying to interpret what the OP is saying as vagueness. Everyone interprets feeling through the steering wheel and their butt a little differently.

Toe up front creates slip angle on the tire, so yes it'll make for more feelsome steering right off-center. The downside is that slip angle is what wears the inside of the tire on the street, far more than a decent chunk of negative camber. If the car is setup well, it should not need toe in or out to have predictable and communicative handling. Toe out will make the front of the car feel twitchy if you go beyond a smidge. Some people like that.

 

[wildcatgoal]

You're welcome!

 

[SteedaTech]

Steeda Progressive spring info

Curb rate 190 lbs/in max rate 225 lbs/in under compression.

Steeda Tech

Sponsored