Lund or Livernois

[Sighlense]

I guess what i bolded is what i am not clear on. What would classify as "needed" or not? Livernois offers updated versions to their 93 tune (3 since i have started researching) plus added "Sport versions".

What i want to know is, will Lund make changes based on what I want (more throttle response - less torque management...etc) or is there a limit to what they are willing to do to their base tune?

Looks like i'm not going to get the answer i am looking for....

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[beefcake]

Personally, I don't care if Lund tuned cars are the fastest across Ford platforms in terms of record times. It doesn't automatically guarantee their etunes are the best, and there are too many confounding variables to claim the tune is the key differentiator.

Lund is doing the best marketing on this forum (thru vendors), and serving as a cheap, volume-based, solution, but they don't hands down make the most power and run the fastest times for the average application on this site. They're like a Bama for the S197's ... maybe a little more aggressive, but a similar strategy and a lot of hype. Given their volume model, it's safer to send out mild tunes. Seems that there are multiple parties doing revisions as well. The tunes will run well enough, and they're cheap, and for most people that's enough ... until they're almost FBO and can't shake a stock 6th gen. Camaro SS.

If people want to compare, post a Lund log and a Livernois log.

not really true, lund offers a great tune, and spends alot of time developing and evolving their tunes.

are they the most aggressive? no, and thats because they want customers to have a car that lives a long time.

everyone is so quick to be like i want the most power, and then when they lose an engine...it was the tune, it was the tune, and then say "if you'd told me i wouldn't have wanted it that agressive"

lund will tune cars more aggressively, you just have to ask for it, and they will tell you that it's at your own risk.

we pushed low 9's on our stock engine til it went, but we knew we were on the edge, and they knew we understood what we were doing

we have the quickest supercharged s550 out there tuned by lund, and lund tunes the quickest s197s, gt350s, gt500s, terminators, etc...

if you want more from them, ask for it,

 

[AmericanLegend]

Livernois and Lund are both the same in this regard. I have finally decided to go the Lund route since they offer a better tuning device and are able to remote tune. Both of these are clear advantages to the Lund Tune, and are undebatable.....

For clarification....Does Livernois not have the ability to read data logs? Or a better way to ask would be, "Does the MyCalibator not have the ability to capture data logs to then send into Livernois for custom tune adjustments?"

 

[bluebeastsrt]

Bumped for a question, and not to continue a debate.

It seems to me that Lund does not continue to "tweak" or offer updated versions of their tunes. Basically what you get, is all you get. Is this correct?

ummmm no. Every time I've received an updated tune from Lund. They had me datalog to make sure the car is running correctly. I'm extremely happy with their service!

 

[WhiteyDog]

Looks like i'm not going to get the answer i am looking for....

Gibbo from over in England (on this site), went back and forth with Lund to tweak and change things that he would've liked to see. From the last time I remembered, he was pretty happy with it. When I got my tune from Lund, he asked if I wanted to datalog I should just send it to him and adjust if needed. I was happy with the tune just the way it was, so I left it alone. Give him a shout, I found him very easy to work with.

 

[NavyChief122]

For clarification....Does Livernois not have the ability to read data logs? Or a better way to ask would be, "Does the MyCalibator not have the ability to capture data logs to then send into Livernois for custom tune adjustments?"

Livernois does not data log with their tuner. This has been said over and over. You don't need a car to be data logged if it's tuned right. I'll take dyno tune/street tuned any day if the week over a mail order tune that you log 5-10 times to get it right. Should be right the first time you get it. There is a reason mail order tunes are cheap. Not knocking anyone.

 

[MyFirst5.0]

did livernois ever update their tuner? it looked antiquated when i thought about using them last year, thats what kept me from them, very happy with lund like everyone else though

 

[H1shawn1]

Livernois does not data log with their tuner. This has been said over and over. You don't need a car to be data logged if it's tuned right. I'll take dyno tune/street tuned any day if the week over a mail order tune that you log 5-10 times to get it right. Should be right the first time you get it. There is a reason mail order tunes are cheap. Not knocking anyone.

This is misinformation, and it sounds like Livernois has indoctrinated you pretty well. The Lund Tune is just as fine as the Livernois tune straight out of the box, mail order tunes exsist because the ability to deliver a tune that will work well for just about every car is a service that any tuner can provide. Livernois stops at this point, and makes claims such as our close relationship with manufacturers allows us to offer the perfect tune for your car right out of the box. The problem is that every car is different, albeit very slightly. It's impossible for a tune straight out of the box to account for every manufacturer variation on every car. I think the real reason Livernois continues to sell this idea of a perfect tune out of the box is that the tuner you are buying is very old and incapable of data logging.

Lund offers the top tuner available and is willing to use it's capabilities to go over the tune and verify that everything is working as it should. This should be viewed as an added value with Lund as opposed to a burden. If you don't desire to take advantage of Lunds willingness to look over data logs, then no worries. 99.9% of the time the tune they gave you is working just fine (made up percentage but either way it'll be very comparable to Livernois success rate).

Where I think things get muddied is Lunds ability to make changes based solely off of data logging, some people will ask for more then what Lund can provide in this area. There is obviously a difference between data logging and remote tuning or Lund wouldn't offer both. Livernois on the other hand is unable to offer data logging or remote tuning. In my mind this is a big advantage for anyone comparing the two.

And this is my opinion based solely off of taking in all the information available on this site and emailing various tuners and vendors with any questions I've had.

 

[AmericanLegend]

How long will Lund offer free reviews of individual datalogs and send revised (if required and/or desired) tunes after the initial tune purchase?

After this time period expires. How much do tune revisions cost?

 

[NavyChief122]

This is misinformation, and it sounds like Livernois has indoctrinated you pretty well..

Please don't twist my words.Like I said I will only dyno/street tune. Mail order tunes with data logs can't touch a dyno/street tune. Same for a mail order tune with no data logs. You want a email tune and data log by all means go for it. If it makes you happy. But don't spout incorrect information and twist people words, to put out your own agenda and bad mouth companies. Livernois, Lund, aed, palm beach dyno, etc. All great companies, but for myself I would not use any of them if it was not a dyno/street tune. Email tune:headbonk:

 

[MedStang]

How long will Lund offer free reviews of individual datalogs and send revised (if required and/or desired) tunes after the initial tune purchase?

After this time period expires. How much do tune revisions cost?

6 months after the initial purchase. $50 for another 6 months after the first period expires.

http://www.lundracing.com/tune-revisions/

 

[Livernois Motorsports]

For clarification....Does Livernois not have the ability to read data logs? Or a better way to ask would be, "Does the MyCalibator not have the ability to capture data logs to then send into Livernois for custom tune adjustments?"

If you send us a datalog with a legitimate concerns about the performance of your vehicle we have the resources to read a datalog and work with you to optimize the tune to your satisfaction. The MyCal itself does NOT capture datalogs.

This is misinformation, and it sounds like Livernois has indoctrinated you pretty well. The Lund Tune is just as fine as the Livernois tune straight out of the box, mail order tunes exsist because the ability to deliver a tune that will work well for just about every car is a service that any tuner can provide. Livernois stops at this point, and makes claims such as our close relationship with manufacturers allows us to offer the perfect tune for your car right out of the box. The problem is that every car is different, albeit very slightly. It's impossible for a tune straight out of the box to account for every manufacturer variation on every car. I think the real reason Livernois continues to sell this idea of a perfect tune out of the box is that the tuner you are buying is very old and incapable of data logging.

Lund offers the top tuner available and is willing to use it's capabilities to go over the tune and verify that everything is working as it should. This should be viewed as an added value with Lund as opposed to a burden. If you don't desire to take advantage of Lunds willingness to look over data logs, then no worries. 99.9% of the time the tune they gave you is working just fine (made up percentage but either way it'll be very comparable to Livernois success rate).

Where I think things get muddied is Lunds ability to make changes based solely off of data logging, some people will ask for more then what Lund can provide in this area. There is obviously a difference between data logging and remote tuning or Lund wouldn't offer both. Livernois on the other hand is unable to offer data logging or remote tuning. In my mind this is a big advantage for anyone comparing the two.

And this is my opinion based solely off of taking in all the information available on this site and emailing various tuners and vendors with any questions I've had.

Our working relationship with the OE does help with our ability to offer great tunes off the get. But we are always trying different tunes out in house with various customer vehicles. Once again, if there is a legitimate concern over the performance of your vehicle we have the ability to read datalogs and we are more than willing to work with you. Anyone who says otherwise is misinformed. We test all the tunes offered off the bat on vehicles before they leave the facility. This is part of the reason that we bought a 5.0 to use as a test mule. We want the tune optimized before it leaves the facility. For the clients that require more attention or a more specialized tune we offer the option for a direct line of contact to get you serviced.

Livernois and Lund are both the same in this regard. I have finally decided to go the Lund route since they offer a better tuning device and are able to remote tune. Both of these are clear advantages to the Lund Tune, and are undebatable.

IMO Livernois likes to talk up their product while suggesting that other products are inferior with very little evidence to support the claims.

In some threads like this one that strategy seems to work very well, in others they get called out on it the thread gets derailed fairly quickly.

Terry I sent you an email an hour or so ago regarding the nGauge, hopefully there is a lot of truth in that 7am-10pm 7 days a week statement.

I just want to take this moment to address your claim here, I cannot speak for any previous employees or representatives of LMS, But I myself only speak to the positive aspects of our business and products. There is ZERO good to come of muckracking the competition. As a consumer, you should want companies to compete by improving the quality of products and tunes all around. Competition breeds excellence, regardless of the company. So as long as I am the representative on this board I will uphold the highest standard of customer service.

 

[Bluemustang]

This is misinformation, and it sounds like Livernois has indoctrinated you pretty well. The Lund Tune is just as fine as the Livernois tune straight out of the box, mail order tunes exsist because the ability to deliver a tune that will work well for just about every car is a service that any tuner can provide. Livernois stops at this point, and makes claims such as our close relationship with manufacturers allows us to offer the perfect tune for your car right out of the box. The problem is that every car is different, albeit very slightly. It's impossible for a tune straight out of the box to account for every manufacturer variation on every car. I think the real reason Livernois continues to sell this idea of a perfect tune out of the box is that the tuner you are buying is very old and incapable of data logging.

Lund offers the top tuner available and is willing to use it's capabilities to go over the tune and verify that everything is working as it should. This should be viewed as an added value with Lund as opposed to a burden. If you don't desire to take advantage of Lunds willingness to look over data logs, then no worries. 99.9% of the time the tune they gave you is working just fine (made up percentage but either way it'll be very comparable to Livernois success rate).

Where I think things get muddied is Lunds ability to make changes based solely off of data logging, some people will ask for more then what Lund can provide in this area. There is obviously a difference between data logging and remote tuning or Lund wouldn't offer both. Livernois on the other hand is unable to offer data logging or remote tuning. In my mind this is a big advantage for anyone comparing the two.

And this is my opinion based solely off of taking in all the information available on this site and emailing various tuners and vendors with any questions I've had.

Also, +61 horsepower and +50 torque HAHA. Yeah, right. If anyone could do that with just a tune, the other big guys would have figured it out too.

 

[Need4Speed15]

Mail order tunes with data logs can't touch a dyno/street tune. Livernois, Lund, aed, palm beach dyno, etc. All great companies, but for myself I would not use any of them if it was not a dyno/street tune. Email tune:headband:

If you truly believe that then you don't really understand the technology behind an email tune dialed in using street, dyno, and/or track logs.

 

[H1shawn1]

Please don't twist my words.Like I said I will only dyno/street tune. Mail order tunes with data logs can't touch a dyno/street tune. Same for a mail order tune with no data logs

Sorry if I came across as twisting your words, rereading it it does sound like you are saying there is merit to data logging and you prefer to use a combination of data logging and dyno tuning. This makes a lot of sense to me. Initially I thought you were saying data logging had no merit.

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