POLL: Guess MY18 Power Level!

[Marino]

Has [MENTION=6363]Topnotch[/MENTION] posted here what he thinks the figures will be?

He didn't say but it's probably because he knows. :ford:

If you go to page 7 that's where he posted that the engine size was increased from 4.95L to 5.04L.

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[millhouse]

Another example is with GM's switch from the port injection 2009 LY7 V6 to the direct injection 2010 LLT V6 in the Cadillac CTS. The engine received an increase in the compression ratio and direct injection. The 2009 CTS V6 made 263 horsepower and 253 torque. The 2010 CTS V6 made 304 horsepower and 273 torque. That is an increase of 41 horsepower and 20 torque out of a 28% smaller engine than the Coyote. 455 horsepower isn't a realistic guess unless you believe Ford will sabotage the engine to make it produce less.

Another reason why you can't use previous MY direct injection engines as a baseline. Keep in mind, the LT1 was a total re-design from the ls3 engine. They had better flowing heads, bigger valves, revised valve angles, variable valve timing, better oiling control, better flowing intake manifold, etc....and it gained a whopping 6.3% increase in HP from a 19% larger engine.

Guesses are fine, but let's not pretend to know anything in regards to what Ford is doing based off of previous engines.

 

[c-rizzle]

455 all the way. Ford has never been one to lead with HP ratings and I don't see this as the beginning.

Yep.

Though I think we're going to get an engine with more torque in the powerband, and a little higher reving, so when you add that wider power band to a 10-speed auto, its going to pull so hard and stay in the peak powerband perfectly for A LOT more performance.

The little parts are going to add up to a whole lot of performance...

ie: "the sum is greater than the parts"

or its going to perform a whole lot better than a car with only 20 more hp.

 

[xwoodx]

You guys are comparing the power gains of the Ls3 to LT1, but the LS3 was not a AFM engine, the L99 was. L99 was 399hp, so really the gains were from 399hp to 455. Not apples to apples at all though as it was a all new generation of engine.

Personally, I think 460/420 on the low side and 470/430 on the high side.

 

[1320']

You guys are comparing the power gains of the Ls3 to LT1, but the LS3 was not a AFM engine, the L99 was. L99 was 399hp, so really the gains were from 399hp to 455. Not apples to apples at all though as it was a all new generation of engine.

Personally, I think 460/420 on the low side and 470/430 on the high side.

The L99 was 400hp/410 tq with a terrible factory tune. The L99 was really a fantastic engine, and in some ways is more capable than the LS3.

 

[xwoodx]

It was also the cam, allegedly because of AFM limitations at the time, but might have been fuel economy/gas guzzler tax related.

Split the difference at 413 maybe...haha

 

[Erik427]

Ford increased the compression ratio more than the Camaro and the bore size. I'm sure that won't result in any additional gains when paired with direct injection. Also, the better flowing intake manifold and heads are just for looks. ;)

462 horsepower looks low.

A full point extra in compression has never added any hp........:lol:
I must agree with you, 460ish hp does seem a little low.

 

[xwoodx]

I know the engine is all new, but they do that all the time. A lot needs to change between the heads, intake manifold, pistons, cams, etc etc for. DI. I figured it will be a 5.0 with DI. Higher compression for Di is a given.

470/430 would be about a match in the 1/4 with the 6th gen SS too...I would think.

 

[Budoy]

The guys at Camaro6 are convinced the '18 refresh is just a 5.0 with DI. "Oh maybe it'll be faster than the V6 1LE now!" It kinda reminds me of the late 90's when the Camaro was the "Superior" car. We all know how that went.

Ford please blow the doors off the LT1. Give us 470+ please!!!

I've never really known anything about American cars, as I've more been into Japanese cars. What happened to the Camaro in the late 90's? Thanks.

 

[Ctease]

DI effectively increase knock resistance of fuel. 5 points for gasoline and 18 points for E85. So premium 91 becomes 96 and E85's 97 becomes 115 (all in AKI or (R+M)/2)

Source: Knock limits in spark ignited direct injected engines using gasoline/ethanol blends by Kasseris, Emmanuel P at MIT Engineering Department
https://dspace.mit.edu/bitstream/handle/1721.1/69496/775670245-MIT.pdf?sequence=2

DI's effective 5 octane points is good for 5% increase in power via 5-8 additional ignition timing or 1 increase in CR (ford obviously chose +1 point)

Source: CRC Study on Octane Number and Engine Efficiency – Literature Review by K.G. Duleep at H-D System & CRC Performance Committe
https://crcao.org/workshops/2014AFE...AVFL Combustion Symposium, 2-2014 Simnick.pdf

435 * 1.05 = 457hp (456.75)

I read exhaust is louder and less restrictive (plus 4 tips )

In total, I'm guessing 470hp & 435 tq w/ +50tq @ 1,500rpm



Side note: Aftermarket E85 tune 456.75 * 1.09 = 498hp (497.8575) or 470 * 1.09 = 512hp. So I'm guessing 500-510 on E85 tune

 

[Marino]

A full point extra in compression has never added any hp........:lol:
I must agree with you, 460ish hp does seem a little low.

Is that sarcasm I sense?

 

[xwoodx]

I've never really known anything about American cars, as I've more been into Japanese cars. What happened to the Camaro in the late 90's? Thanks.

I think he is referring to it being discontinued, in 2002. In 1998 the ls1 engine came out and the car was considerably faster than the Mustang, but it didn't help sales all that much as it wasn't a good daily driver.

 

[moto111]

when the hell will ford open there mouths? lol

 

[TexasRebel]

when the hell will ford open there mouths? lol

right after releasing SYNC3 v2.2 for Fords...

 

[c-rizzle]

DI effectively increase knock resistance of fuel. 5 points for gasoline and 18 points for E85. So premium 91 becomes 96 and E85's 97 becomes 115 (all in AKI or (R+M)/2)

Source: Knock limits in spark ignited direct injected engines using gasoline/ethanol blends by Kasseris, Emmanuel P at MIT Engineering Department
https://dspace.mit.edu/bitstream/handle/1721.1/69496/775670245-MIT.pdf?sequence=2

DI's effective 5 octane points is good for 5% increase in power via 5-8 additional ignition timing or 1 increase in CR (ford obviously chose +1 point)

Source: CRC Study on Octane Number and Engine Efficiency – Literature Review by K.G. Duleep at H-D System & CRC Performance Committe
https://crcao.org/workshops/2014AFE...AVFL Combustion Symposium, 2-2014 Simnick.pdf

435 * 1.05 = 457hp (456.75)

I read exhaust is louder and less restrictive (plus 4 tips )

In total, I'm guessing 470hp & 435 tq w/ +50tq @ 1,500rpm



Side note: Aftermarket E85 tune 456.75 * 1.09 = 498hp (497.8575) or 470 * 1.09 = 512hp. So I'm guessing 500-510 on E85 tune

Great post, its always nice to see some math & science behind a theory, instead of circular referencing one's self in 3rd person.

I kind of think Ford is going to go conservative with 456hp, just so on paper it has more HP than Camaro.

Then it will have some extra ponies to release in a couple of years, like they did from 2012 w/ 412hp to 2013 w/ 420hp.

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