POLL: Guess MY18 Power Level!

[Seceda91]

I voted 455 but it's not enough unless the torque is around 440. Even that may not even things out with Chebby's SS.

If it's 475 with 420 that would be a smidge better tranny per tranny

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[Petroleum Jesus]

hahah omg 500hp lmao ford would not be dumb enough to let this car get close to a gt350 i mean come on. they will do 455 or 460 to simply beat the cameras numbers. some people are living on a prayer with there hopes lmao

No, just living on dimensional analysis, thermodynamics and volumetric modeling. Methods like those tend to be useful when your engineering an engine. Differentials are not sentimental like your arguments. They simply are what they are, and easily calculate with Microsoft Excel.

Where are you getting 500?

455 is the conservative guess, whereas 475 is the logical one. Still going with the math on the dash cluster promo as my inspiration...

This isn't just the same Coyote with DI added.

It's a more refined version of DI with enhanced engine components.

You are also assuming the 350 sees no improvements.

While it's possible, I would imagine that the injection tech makes it over to the 350 without too much development overhead.

If Ford did so, we'd be looking at a 570 hp or so engine (which would be crazy. And also very cool).

But even if the 350 sees no improvements, 526 is plenty better than 475.

Even if it was the same version of the Coyote with DI, 475 would still be a conservative guess as a well implemented DI system improves the efficiency of combustion by 9-16%. This efficiency translates into equal gains in power and fuel economy, depending on the throttle position, so any tuning to the injection cycles for either does not negatively affect the other as is the case with legacy port fuel injection. In reality, 489hp/432lbft is my logical projection for a Gen 2 Coyote with DI. A Gen 3 could gain an extra 2-5% on top of that.

My projection for a Gen 1 Voodoo with the same DI model is 591hp/463lbft, though it's highly likely that the scavenging nature of the Voodoo's firing order will allow for over 600hp.

 

[millhouse]

No, just living on dimensional analysis, thermodynamics and volumetric modeling. Methods like those tend to be useful when your engineering an engine. Differentials are not sentimental like your arguments. They simply are what they are, and easily calculate with Microsoft Excel.
Even if it was the same version of the Coyote with DI, 475 would still be a conservative guess as a well implemented DI system improves the efficiency of combustion by 9-16%. This efficiency translates into equal gains in power and fuel economy, depending on the throttle position, so any tuning to the injection cycles for either does not negatively affect the other as is the case with legacy port fuel injection. In reality, 489hp/432lbft is my logical projection for a Gen 2 Coyote with DI. A Gen 3 could gain an extra 2-5% on top of that.

My projection for a Gen 1 Voodoo with the same DI model is 591hp/463lbft, though it's highly likely that the scavenging nature of the Voodoo's firing order will allow for over 600hp.

The 6.2 Camaro only gained a 6.3 percent hp increase when switching over to DI. It's fair to say, given the same percent, a smaller displacement engine would net a smaller total HP gain. What this looks like to me is, 455-460 a fairly good estimate. Could it be more or less? Sure, but none of us has enough data to be able to say with any type of certainty. How much are the heads changing? Are they changing the flow characteristics significantly or valve sizes? The pistons and chambers have to change, but to what extent?

 

[Petroleum Jesus]

The 6.2 Camaro only gained a 6.3 percent hp increase when switching over to DI. It's fair to say, given the same percent, a smaller displacement engine would net a smaller total HP gain. What this looks like to me is, 455-460 a fairly good estimate. Could it be more or less? Sure, but none of us has enough data to be able to say with any type of certainty. How much are the heads changing? Are they changing the flow characteristics significantly or valve sizes? The pistons and chambers have to change, but to what extent?

That's simply not the case. Not only did the LT1 gain over 8% power over the LS3, but also over 15% more lbft of torque. If this result is used as a basis for Gen 3 Coyote gains, it would make 470hp/460lbft respectively. That said, the results are not a solid scientific basis, as VCT was also implemented negating any control reference. Furthermore, the volumetrics of a 16-valve engine as compared to a 32-valve are apples to oranges from thottle-body to exhaust manifold and therefore should not be expected to respond within a degree of precision that is applicable to these margins.

Here is a dyno chart which compares the aforementioned engines back to back using comparable drivetrains (all manuals, virtually identical transmission).

http://www.camaro6.com/2015/09/07/dyno-comparison-of-lt1-vs-ls7-and-ls3-engines/

 

[millhouse]

That's simply not the case. Not only did the LT1 gain over 8% power over the LS3, but also over 15% more lbft of torque. If this result is used as a basis for Gen 3 Coyote gains, it would make 470hp/460lbft respectively. That said, the results are not a solid scientific basis, as VCT was also implemented negating any control reference. Furthermore, the volumetrics of a 16-valve engine as compared to a 32-valve are apples to oranges from thottle-body to exhaust manifold and therefore should not be expected to respond within a degree of precision that is applicable to these margins.

Here is a dyno chart which compares the aforementioned engines back to back using comparable drivetrains (all manuals, virtually identical transmission).

http://www.camaro6.com/2015/09/07/dyno-comparison-of-lt1-vs-ls7-and-ls3-engines/

The 2015 ls3 in the Camaro is rated at 426 hp. The 2016 LT1 in the Camaro is rated at 455 hp. Simple arithmetic shows this to be a 6.3% increase. In the same token, torque was increased from 420 to 455 lbft. This is an increase of 7.7 percent. Applying the same logic to the coyote would show a HP/TQ rating of 462hp/431lbft.

In the end, the LT1 is a much bigger engine, and the coyote has double the amount of valves. There are way too many variable to make any claims that the new coyote will produce xxx hp and yyy lbft based off of any other engines.

 

[moto111]

Omfg I can't to see what all you are going to say when it's 455 lol

 

[DarkestHour]

I'm thinking it will be 455. Probably close to 400whp stock and on par with a "tuned" stock 2015-2017.

 

[Petroleum Jesus]

The 2015 ls3 in the Camaro is rated at 426 hp. The 2016 LT1 in the Camaro is rated at 455 hp. Simple arithmetic shows this to be a 6.3% increase. In the same token, torque was increased from 420 to 455 lbft. This is an increase of 7.7 percent. Applying the same logic to the coyote would show a HP/TQ rating of 462hp/431lbft.

In the end, the LT1 is a much bigger engine, and the coyote has double the amount of valves. There are way too many variable to make any claims that the new coyote will produce xxx hp and yyy lbft based off of any other engines.

The dyno results I cited in thè link tell a completely different story, but agreed, Different animal.

 

[saleen367]

455 all the way. Ford has never been one to lead with HP ratings and I don't see this as the beginning.

 

[Dominant1]

465 /425

 

[bluebeastsrt]

I see 460-465. You already know what your target is. Why not exceed the Camaro's power?

 

[Marino]

The 2015 ls3 in the Camaro is rated at 426 hp. The 2016 LT1 in the Camaro is rated at 455 hp. Simple arithmetic shows this to be a 6.3% increase. In the same token, torque was increased from 420 to 455 lbft. This is an increase of 7.7 percent. Applying the same logic to the coyote would show a HP/TQ rating of 462hp/431lbft.

In the end, the LT1 is a much bigger engine, and the coyote has double the amount of valves. There are way too many variable to make any claims that the new coyote will produce xxx hp and yyy lbft based off of any other engines.

Ford increased the compression ratio more than the Camaro and the bore size. I'm sure that won't result in any additional gains when paired with direct injection. Also, the better flowing intake manifold and heads are just for looks. ;)

462 horsepower looks low.

 

[9secondko]

I'm still thinking the numbers in the dash promo are not straight faced. If they are, so be it. It's still decent. But not amazing. It would be Ford doing the bare minimum. But 475 seems to be what it's pointing at if it was put out there as something you have to decode.

Something that may debunk my theory is that fords communications guy sent R&T another image when they asked about the GT500. This one had more detail in it along with the display reading "755." So... who knows. But this one also had the 289 number in it, so if my math is what they used, then that number would be astronomical. So I am teetering on the edge of doubt.

However, For stated over 500 hp for the GT350 before it was out and it ended up being a good bit over that at 526. So the 455 is likely the number they targeted as the absolute bottom end. And likely for the GT500 as well with 755, which would actually come out to 788 with converting 289 to 302.

 

[Marino]

Another example is with GM's switch from the port injection 2009 LY7 V6 to the direct injection 2010 LLT V6 in the Cadillac CTS. The engine received an increase in the compression ratio and direct injection. The 2009 CTS V6 made 263 horsepower and 253 torque. The 2010 CTS V6 made 304 horsepower and 273 torque. That is an increase of 41 horsepower and 20 torque out of a 28% smaller engine than the Coyote. 455 horsepower isn't a realistic guess unless you believe Ford will sabotage the engine to make it produce less.

 

[Budoy]

Has [MENTION=6363]Topnotch[/MENTION] posted here what he thinks the figures will be?

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