Ford Racing ProCal Tune

[TheLion]

I'm not a hyper miller with my cars, but long trips the DTE still show around 350+

Fox, you car a stick or auto? FP guys say 10% to 12% drive drain loss for stick and 12% to 15% for auto. Your stock wheel HP numbers look spot on, but the peak torque numbers look too high, then again there's that little spike where it over shoots, looks like the average after that is more around 290 ish. Stock wheel HP numbers are spot on for 15% loss from the state crank numbers.

Just trying to make sense of the dyno runs because FP only states 335HP/390ft-lbs at the crank, not the wheels, but your getting 325whp/397wtq which is a 15% increase from FP's crank numbers. That's 373hp/457ft-lbs at the crank...way higher than FP's numbers. I'm wondering if the red dyno graph they mistakenly put in a 15% correction factor for drive train losses?

I wouldn't expect just an FMIC to push things that much higher, but then again maybe the stock FMIC they used on their dyno was heat soaking like a son of a gun...!

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[jtmat]

The difference being he doesn't have the FP tune to even test out nor does it appear he has any intent on doing so, I thought that might be obvious, but maybe not :shrug:

I think you are missing something.... I could be wrong, but I read into some replies lately that some might be tired of your

1) fanboi/advertising of LiverNoise in many threads

2) your long posts with some constant inaccurate info

Me? I don't really care... I simply skip over those walls of text and let you ramble.... I figure this is your way of learning... you don't mean any harm.

 

[apx632]

The difference being he doesn't have the FP tune to even test out nor does it appear he has any intent on doing so, I thought that might be obvious, but maybe not :shrug:

You compare tunes all the time (and have done so in this thread). And I'll put it to you like this. The mileage is gonna be relatively the same across the board regardless of the tune on normal pump fuel. So your comparison really is rather pointless. I've ran 3 different tunes on my car (cobb, map and tune+) and fuel mileage never differed.
What is obvious though is that you make a lot of long posts without a lot of relevant factual information. You mainly speculate on everything.
As far as the fp tune you are correct I have zero intention of ever running it. Still doesn't negate that other tunes have been discussed and I've shared my experiences.

 

[PewterCam]

Lol.. you guys still read TheLion's posts?

 

[Bennington]

Lol.. you guys still read TheLion's posts?

It's hard not to if you don't block him. His posts are like a rash over this entire section.

 

[TheLion]

That's it, next post of mine will be 100,000 words . If I had a dime for every time some one on this forum gave me bad advice or incorrect information...I'd be rich. I figure things out for myself because I've been told incorrect information far too many times from people just like you.

Honestly, I work to understand things as thoroughly as I can and yes I post a lot of my thought processes to invite conversation, which is not something I can say for those criticizing me, but it is what it is. It's also fun to speculate, at least it is for me and it's just part of forums, get used to it.

I've been right on quite a few things people have argued with me on such OAR's function (at least in regards to FP, who turns off OAR and LMS in how they use it), the importance of added cooling, the dangers of running inadequately tested tunes (how many blown engines have we seen now that temps have started to fall?) etc...

Kinda ironic how I'm derided as a fan boy yet several people on this forum, including the jokers posting above are die hard fan boys of T+, Unleashed or what ever other shop tuner you fawn over...pick your poison...yet their the ones blowing customer engines...in their now 7 years with the Ecoboost platform LMS has not failed a customer car. I'm willing to bet Ford Performance, which this entire thread is about and which was started by myself thank you very much, will have a similar record. The reason I'm a "fan boy" of the aforementioned entities is because I see the value and thoroughness in their process and their records speak for themselves.

If you've noticed, I haven't bothered to post on anything I'm not generally involved in, such as big turbos, built bottom ends etc. I generally post a lot on threads I start, but apparently in your divine eyes that's a problem. If you don't like it just do what you suggested, block it or ignore it. That's what I've been doing with you since I got involved on this forum ;) I think the real cancer here is you.

 

[apx632]

I'll tell ya this I'm not a fanboy of anyone. I went with my choice because I wanted someone who pro tuned on Cobb software. I did not want any other tuning device than an accessport for this car because of all the features it has. At the time Adam was the one who had the most experience pro tuning these cars with Cobb software and his prices are ridiculously great, along with outstanding customer service.
As far as thoroughly trying to understand things regarding this platform alone, I can't even tell you how much I've learned in the near 1 year I've owned this car from the people on here (both car owners and tuners alike).

 

[TheLion]

I think you are missing something.... I could be wrong, but I read into some replies lately that some might be tired of your

1) fanboi/advertising of LiverNoise in many threads

2) your long posts with some constant inaccurate info

Me? I don't really care... I simply skip over those walls of text and let you ramble.... I figure this is your way of learning... you don't mean any harm.

Cite some of my inaccurate information...if I speculate on something it's generally pretty clear that I'm doing just that, speculation isn't necessarily true or correct, nor is there anything wrong with it.

If I actually figure something out that is known to be true I also make that clear. I could say the same thing about you without any examples, doesn't make it true. I think generally your jumping on the band wagon because simply put I annoy you with my long posts and you get some enjoyment out of picking on someone. Bully's tend to flock together.

Again I find it fascinating how you claim I post constantly inaccurate information...yet we have examples showing something quite differently like the geniuses who just recently told me my engine was going to fail because OAR was not at -1.00 and I must have bad fuel or my tune was not appropriate for the fuel...a lot of speculation or outright incorrect information from those claiming to be trumpeting factual truths when they simply didn't understand themselves. At least I admitted at the time I didn't understand the characteristic use of OAR and worked to correct that because I didn't just buy what I was being told.

So I dug into OAR, its use, its intent etc. and I also consulted LMS on it and came to find out surprise, surprise, they were wrong as I find to frequently be the case. Going even deeper we came to find out FP turns off OAR completely! Again, if I had a dime for every time some one made ridiculous claims that ended up being nonsensical garbage...There's a lot I don't know, but there's also a lot I do know and what I do know I speak with authority on as anyone would.

If you don't like it, then don't post on my doggone threads, why is this concept so hard to understand? Three people just attacked me on a thread I started, yet their dumb a**es are the ones reading this thread...posting completely useless one liner responses about how I post to much...addle:. Am I the only one who sees the stupidity in that? Lets get back to the purpose of this thread, the Ford Performance tune and information about it. I for one am hoping Fox replies, if he dares because, he might be posting too much...you never know.

 

[solodogg]

I love reading TheLion's posts, whether I agree 100% or not at least he does some research before posting his theories and doesn't just believe everything he has read on the internet. Any tuner can claim whatever they want, but it's your responsibility to make an educated decision about the mods you plan to install on your car.

Myself, I will be using the Ford tune for the exact reasons he states. Ford has a lot on the line if their tune causes a lot of engine failure, where none of the other tuners do. They do not have to worry about being backed by the company that will have to replace a lot of engines if the tune causes problems, Ford does. I do not agree fully with his theories on using cooler thermostats, but that doesn't mean that I dismiss everything else he says and start making personal attacks because his opinions differ from mine. If there was a bunch of non-factual information being posted, I might respond with my viewpoint, but that's it.

Either way, one thing is for sure. He did create this thread, he is a major contributor to this thread, and if you don't like that don't read t.

 

[TheLion]

I just got this from Ford Performance this morning regarding running cooler thermostats if anyone cares, as I asked them about a customization to the FP tune so I could run a 160F thermostat and have a proper fan profile. Technically I cannot see a reason running the thermostat even with the standard fan profile is harmful as the following will happen:

1. When there is adequate air flow (at speed), cylinder head temperatures will hover around 170~180F as the thermostat set point is the limiting factor in temperature regulation.

2. When idling in traffic your cylinder head temps / coolant temps will creep up to the same temperatures that would be seen using a 180F thermostat as the fans will not turn on as soon due to the PCM set point. The 160F thermostat will be fully opened, but there is inadequate air flow across the radiator to allow regulation at the lower range of the 160F thermostat. Once you start moving again temperatures will drop back down.

3. The PCM actively adjusts timing and AFR for internal temperatures, so this is of little consequence. I do not believe the small swing in temperature of 10F to 20F would be harmful as I see such swings even even with the 180F standard thermostat.

No, a 160F thermostat is not necessary nor even ideal for the FP tune unless of course you might actually track the car, you may want to consider that for added safety under sustained high loads. I think there's a reason the warranty doesn't cover "track use" and the user manual actually states that ALL cooling systems need to be upgraded for actual track use.

But i would argue if you have base model like I do, a radiator upgrade may be necessary as it's only a 1" unit unlike the PP cars that come equipped with a 1.5" unit. Both a new PP radiator and Mishimoto 2" radiator cost the same, so for me the Mishimoto made more sense as it has added cooling capaity over the PP radiator, the additional cooling capacity won't hurt anything, but if you need it and don't have it you can run into problems.

I have stated in the past it was my understanding that the primary reason auto manufacturers run their engines hotter is for emissions, not engine durability / safety or efficiency and Ford Performance confirmed this when I asked about running a LMS 160F thermostat with their software:

Our calibration doesn’t allow you to adjust fan temperature. See what Livernois advises. They may sell an auxiliary fan switch set up or some other way to turn the fan on. You get into emissions issues with lower engine operating temperatures. That’s why we can’t do that in our calibration.

Keep in mind that the PCM grounds the fan to turn it on.

Mike Goodwin

[email protected]

(800) FORD-788

www.fordshowparts.com

www.fordperformance.com

www.performanceparts.ford.com

I will be installing the FP tune and CAI today and I will probably run that until the warranty is up and then switch back to Livernois. The one issue I do honestly have a concern over with running Livernois which I'm backtracking from is a Ford related factory defect, which if present, would not be covered even if Livernois software was not the cause. At this point, it's not worth the risk, however small. Once the warranty is up the situation changes and I'll run the better performing of the two...although, if the final production FP tune performs as well in my car as Fox's beta version did in his, there's not that much of a difference between the two and it might give Livernois a legitimate run for their money. It will be interesting to get my 2016 on a dyno with the FP tune in January as I have similar upgrades to Fox's (CAI, FMIC etc.), see how it compares.

 

[lizardrko]

Mileage.

I realize it's a bit early for this, but I'm hoping some of you with the tune could report back on your mileage in the next few weeks.

I'm curious if it's about the same, a little better or a little worse for those doing a lot of freeway driving. I like to road trip my car and I'm interested in range.

Thanks for any info in advance.

Had it for about a month, so far the mileage is about the same. Lots of traffic/highway driving

 

[JamesinLittleSilver]

Getting ready to go on an out of state trip next week. 500 miles one way. Maybe ill run the FP tune on the way there and Livernois on the way back to see how mileage compares. Let me know if your interested.

That would be super!!!

 

[arghx7]

The Ford guy never said anything about lower temperatures not affecting fuel efficiency. He said it affects emissions and didn't comment on those other aspects. Considering the guy who would actually know the other sensitivities to coolant temperature probably studied it at least 5 years ago that knowledge is probably not accessible to your Ford Performance contact.

 

[Pididdle]

Does anyone know if the Active Noise Control is turned off when the FP tune is installed? My car seems to have a lot more road noise on the highway now.
I know it deletes the fake engine sound, but not sure about noise control.

Thanks

 

[jtmat]

Does anyone know if the Active Noise Control is turned off when the FP tune is installed? My car seems to have a lot more road noise on the highway now.
I know it deletes the fake engine sound, but not sure about noise control.

Thanks

I don't think anyone knows for certain for either one.

You certainly can contact Ford Performance and ask (I actually sent them an email 10 min ago asking the exact question, just to see what they would say):

Warranty, Ford Performance - [email protected]

Call directly at 800-367-3788 during regular business hours, Monday through Friday, 8:30 a.m. until 5:00 p.m. Eastern time.

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