Supercharged Track Cars

[Scott Wilson]

I wanted to see if any of yall are running blowers on HPDE setups. Im debating on staying N/A or adding a low hp supercharged setup. I really want to keep heat down. I know thats an issue with F/I let alone N/A but im curious of other coyote guys experience.

Thanks

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[wildcatgoal]

Once I get better, I plan to go with a Paxton. IMHO, better power curve for a track and, more or less, keeping the - let's call it - mechanical heat (heat emanating from the blower) off the top of the engine and nice big fat intercooler doo-dad up front. Also will add an oil cooler.

I just need to quickly win the lottery or marry an almost dead old rich lady.

 

[Scott Wilson]

My concern with the paxton/vortech is it sits directly next to the intake and my buddy has it answer we can heat soak the head temps in about 3 pulls. I'm leaning towards the paxton/vortech being the WORST choice tbh.

 

[bluestang50]

My concern with the paxton/vortech is it sits directly next to the intake and my buddy has it answer we can heat soak the head temps in about 3 pulls. I'm leaning towards the paxton/vortech being the WORST choice tbh.

I highly doubt a centrifugal is going to be the worst choice. A PD blower like a whipple/kenne bell/etc.. has to be far worse due to its relatively small heat exchanger and being tucked down in the valley. At least with the centrifugals you can have a large intercooler to keep IATs down. Either way you are going to be battling heat far worse than if you remain NA.

 

[db252]

I run a Whipple and do track days usually once a month as long as it's not raining which isn't as often here in CA as most of the states. I've run on 100 degree days and have had no issue and I don't baby it. Also, I don't have fans either but a more open grill than stock.

 

[ddozier]

I wanted to see if any of yall are running blowers on HPDE setups. Im debating on staying N/A or adding a low hp supercharged setup. I really want to keep heat down. I know thats an issue with F/I let alone N/A but im curious of other coyote guys experience.

Thanks

I am currently tracking a dedicated build GT PP Mustang NA, and I have owned three Aucra NSX and have tracked them all, one NA, one with a Whipple, and a twin turbo system. All four of these cars where very different in how they were driven on track. For the last 5 years I have been tracking the turbo NSX and this year made the move to the GT. The turbo system and intercooler was my own design and fabrication and for track duty a turbo would be my first choice, then centrifugal blower, then PD blower.

The main reason I put them in that order is efficiency for the given task. The Whipple was a joy on the street adding low end grunt to a car that had to rev high (think 6-8k rpm) to make any power and NA the car was the definition of a momentum car. The Whipple had a big weakness and that was heat, on the street it was fine, on the track within 5 laps heat soak and proper ECU management to keep the engine alive meant you would loose about 50% of what you had gained from the FI system. You could fix it with methanol or larger intercoolers and make it work but in the end it was not the best choice for the task.

The Coyote is a motor with less displacement and therefore has less TQ, on the street you would think you would want to add a FI system to fill in the low end TQ and help the car compete with larger displacement cars and accelerate faster. For the street this is a good idea, for track duty TQ can be hard to control at corner exit while trying to put the power down, also HP wins the drag races on the straights and allows for the pass (or to block a pass).

All FI systems have their benefits and weaknesses, in general a turbo offers the owner and tuner the most control and greatest variance on how the system will behave, choices of the type of turbo, boost controller, ECU and intercooler design all allow you to shape the FI system to meet your needs for the project. They are very reliable if designed for the job you will have them do. The other FI system be it PD Blower or Centrifugal have very different power delivery and plumbing needs, both can be designed to do the job of street or track duty but are harder to bridge the gap and do both well.

A large part of choosing a FI system is how do you want the power delivered, how much power do you need, and for how long. Once the choice for the type of FI is made the real work starts on how best to shape that system to meet your needs and how to address all the other supporting system of the car to make it reliable. Just about any performance shop could set you up with a 700whp dyno queen that would not last more than 10 laps on the track when driven at 10/10ths.

If you really want to consider a FI setup for track use there a few questions you need to answer for yourself.

1. Do I really need the power or am I adding a band-aid to my driving ability so I can be FAST?

2. Is the goal of the system to be completely track focused performance, or equal track and street, or mainly street but help at the track?

3. How important is reliability vs power?

4. How much power do I need?

5. Am I a high revving kind of guy or a lots of grunt low RPM guy?

Give it some thought and if you know what you want designing the system is not that much of a challenge, paying for it might not be, as any FI system that can hold up to the riggers of track duty will be expensive.

Dave

 

[sonicc]

That's some good info from ddozier and good questions to consider.

To be honest, if it's just for track - not racing/competition - I wouldn't even consider the FI.

 

[Scott Wilson]

My previous track cars have all been turbo Miatas. The miata sucks ass at heat management but at least there was plenty of stuff to do to keep it down. (Rad,wetter water, ducting, oil cooler etc) my fear is that with the s550 there is already great ducting and a pretty larger rad from the start. I'm on the fence about the mishimoto rad. I've used them before and have seen minimal benefits. I'd be more inclined to go with a koyo as I've had great results with their cores. As fast as oil cooling I'd build my own ducted setrab system and possible ditch the stock cooler that IMO is more to warm your oil rather than cool it.

FI is definitely something I want. Ive driven a few differenthings coyote setups and they all feel great and to me NA isn't pushing the limit enough. Its great on the street cause you can go WOT everywhere and not break the law too bad but on a road course I'd like to have more grunt on corner exits and straits.

I don't see how am air to air cent setup is going to keep head temps lower than a TVS. To me having two heat exchangers should work better. I'd imagine even a single turbo would be better than a centri in my mind. If this isn't the case please inform me.

 

[BMR Tech]

I think it also depends on the kind of tracks you plan to run at.

Short tight? Long and fast? Those things also play a role, due to the above mentioned "setting the power delivery up properly".

 

[BMR Tech]

I have been toying with this as well. My two considerations were a low boost Whipple SC set-up with additional cooling features....since the Whipple makes good torque and screams up top.....and also a Centrifugal SC set-up.

Tough choice for me.

 

[xXANCHORMONXx]

I can't tell you how many guys at the track have their day cut short because of having these crazy turbo kits or superchargers.

My advice is to stay na as long as you can, and focus on skill, suspension, brakes etc.

I guarantee you that with proper tires and suspension you are not out driving your power level yet.

 

[wildcatgoal]

Well, again, centri for me. It'd be nice to back-to-back test these kinds of things but, like I said, need to win the lottery right quick. Man, if I did, the parts testing I would do would be epic. After paying my best friends from kindergarten off, of course.

Frankly, I find it's my traction control getting in the way, especially coming out of a turn. Even in track mode, my car wants to cut power until finally it thinks it has created world peace and prosperity when coming out of very tight turns that took heavy braking before had, hit the apex, roll onto the gas. Instigate a little rotation in the back if you so choose and BOOF - power cut that lasts seemingly forever. Arg.

 

[Scott Wilson]

I have been toying with this as well. My two considerations were a low boost Whipple SC set-up with additional cooling features....since the Whipple makes good torque and screams up top.....and also a Centrifugal SC set-up.

Tough choice for me.

That's what I was thinking too. Big pulley whipple low boost and plenty of surface area to avoid as much heat soak.

 

[Scott Wilson]

Well, again, centri for me. It'd be nice to back-to-back test these kinds of things but, like I said, need to win the lottery right quick. Man, if I did, the parts testing I would do would be epic. After paying my best friends from kindergarten off, of course.

Frankly, I find it's my traction control getting in the way, especially coming out of a turn. Even in track mode, my car wants to cut power until finally it thinks it has created world peace and prosperity when coming out of very tight turns that took heavy braking before had, hit the apex, roll onto the gas. Instigate a little rotation in the back if you so choose and BOOF - power cut that lasts seemingly forever. Arg.

Power cut from not having traction or power cut from heat? IMO pull fuse 5 in the engine bay to eliminate big brother. Really makes the car feel raw

 

[Scott Wilson]

I can't tell you how many guys at the track have their day cut short because of having these crazy turbo kits or superchargers.

My advice is to stay na as long as you can, and focus on skill, suspension, brakes etc.

I guarantee you that with proper tires and suspension you are not out driving your power level yet.

NA miata guys said the same thing when I put on a turbo. But I still got the car down to 2000lbs and made 280wheel. Car was a blast to drive. The S550 handles really awesome with what I have now so it's fine in that regard. I'm just trying to tune it to my liking power wise. Unfortunately I don't think an extra 30wheel from a CJ mani would get me where I want to be

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