Supercharged Track Cars

[FlowForm_Wheels]

I have been toying with this as well. My two considerations were a low boost Whipple SC set-up with additional cooling features....since the Whipple makes good torque and screams up top.....and also a Centrifugal SC set-up.

Tough choice for me.

I went with the Vortech Centri on mine. Once the car is up and running on the track I'll get you some feedback on it and of course videos and photos. I had experience with Kenne Bell in the past, and on the streets, it's fantastic, just instant torque immediately when you wanted it (Was on my 2003 Mustang GT). The problem I had was with getting traction out of a corner more easily. If you have bucketloads of torque at almost every RPM, you may have a lot to handle on corner exit. Centri's though have a more linear power band which I felt was more appealing to my ability to hit corner exit as well as I can without sliding all over the place.

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[xXANCHORMONXx]

NA miata guys said the same thing when I put on a turbo. But I still got the car down to 2000lbs and made 280wheel. Car was a blast to drive. The S550 handles really awesome with what I have now so it's fine in that regard. I'm just trying to tune it to my liking power wise. Unfortunately I don't think an extra 30wheel from a CJ mani would get me where I want to be

That's the thing it handles well now but that will change with another 100hp on tap

I had an Ecoboost making 400 whp on my track tune and I was no where near be able to use it all. On top of that I need meth injection to prevent heat soak.

Now with my GT350 it's been so much more fun since I don't have to do anything special since it can handle the heat.

I'd never go FI on a hpde car ever again imo

 

[sonicc]

NA miata guys said the same thing when I put on a turbo. But I still got the car down to 2000lbs and made 280wheel. Car was a blast to drive. The S550 handles really awesome with what I have now so it's fine in that regard. I'm just trying to tune it to my liking power wise. Unfortunately I don't think an extra 30wheel from a CJ mani would get me where I want to be

You seem pretty set on FI, so go for it.

I've never had a supercharged car, but from the research I've done, it seems that centrifugal would be the best choice for track use.

 

[wildcatgoal]

Power cut from not having traction or power cut from heat? IMO pull fuse 5 in the engine bay to eliminate big brother. Really makes the car feel raw

I was being risk averse. (To answer: loss of traction. I haven't had heat issues thus far but I sometimes skip a session.)

 

[Scott Wilson]

That's the thing it handles well now but that will change with another 100hp on tap

I had an Ecoboost making 400 whp on my track tune and I was no where near be able to use it all. On top of that I need meth injection to prevent heat soak.

Now with my GT350 it's been so much more fun since I don't have to do anything special since it can handle the heat.

I'd never go FI on a hpde car ever again imo

I had issues with my eco on a track and that's kinda why I keep bouncing around between a centri and a TVS. The eco at 4k would just dump all the tq into the corner exits and the throttle was basically a binary switch with no resolution. I put so much moneyou into the eco to build a balanced car and the way the turbo was tuned kinda killed it for track days as it was setup only for wot

 

[wildcatgoal]

I loved my big turbo on my Subaru - lagged until about 3,500 RPM and then by then I was straight as an arrow and ready to go! Haha.

 

[Plimmer]

Awesome thread, I'm also on my way to a twin turbo set up. In preparation I have upgraded brakes and brake cooling, Mishimoto radiator, vented hood and just got a 60 row oil cooler. My diff cooler is working fine too, so next step is a twin turbo set up after I get the engine oil cooler fitted.

Why do I want a turbo?

Cuz i track at COTA a lot and I want to run with the C7 ZO6's, the GT3's, the McLaren's, Ferrari Challenge cars, etc.....and do it all in a Mustang......lol

So I'm going twin turbo, stock block, low boost, stock compression. Ideally I want to use the water cooled Borg Warner EFR turbo's, but would be interested in input on reliability of turbo makes for road course use. So far I'm thinking the Boost Works low mount turbo kit will be the direction I take.

 

[xXANCHORMONXx]

Awesome thread, I'm also on my way to a twin turbo set up. In preparation I have upgraded brakes and brake cooling, Mishimoto radiator, vented hood and just got a 60 row oil cooler. My diff cooler is working fine too, so next step is a twin turbo set up after I get the engine oil cooler fitted.

Why do I want a turbo?

Cuz i track at COTA a lot and I want to run with the C7 ZO6's, the GT3's, the McLaren's, Ferrari Challenge cars, etc.....and do it all in a Mustang......lol

So I'm going twin turbo, stock block, low boost, stock compression. Ideally I want to use the water cooled Borg Warner EFR turbo's, but would be interested in input on reliability of turbo makes for road course use. So far I'm thinking the Boost Works low mount turbo kit will be the direction I take.

If you do a turbo setup it has to be water cooled for sure. Oil only or "oil less" turbos will not last

 

[daltron]

Power cut from not having traction or power cut from heat? IMO pull fuse 5 in the engine bay to eliminate big brother. Really makes the car feel raw

*Fuse 62 is the correct fuse. I think you are thinking "5" because that is the amp rating.

I definitely agree, I run without fuse 62 24/7 and I love it. Simplest way to describe it is the car does what I tell it to.

 

[Imran520]

The AI cars may shoot you off the road or hit you on purpose to get you off the road.

 

[higdominator]

Plenty of power left NA in a coyote to make it a fun track car.

I'm of the strictly NA camp for FI on the track mainly for above reasons and I prefer simple setups that I don't have to worry about.

IMO there is plenty of juice left in the coyote to make it a seriously fun track car.

 

[ddozier]

I don't see how am air to air cent setup is going to keep head temps lower than a TVS. To me having two heat exchangers should work better. I'd imagine even a single turbo would be better than a centri in my mind. If this isn't the case please inform me.

Couple of things, a PD Blower (TVS, Whipple, KBell) will always compress air as it moves through the blower from inlet to exit, if it is spinning it is compressing air, if you need more air you spin it faster if you need less air you bypass the blower exit back to the blower inlet, because of this one issue the outlet temps of a PD blower will always be higher than almost any other type of FI. Some PD blowers are more efficient than others but the fact that all the air has to be compressed before it is used at least once and sometimes more than once if the bypass is open more than closed, means a PD blower is less efficient than a centrifugal or a turbo. Compressing air takes energy (pumping losses) and compressing air creates heat, no way around that. That is why we have to cool the air after it is compressed prior to it entering the combustion chamber.

That brings me to the other thing, air to air (ATA) or water to air (WTA) are both methods to remove the heat from the charge side air. Most of the time the cooling method used is a decision made for a packaging reason as both if designed correctly are very efficient at removing heat from the charged air. It is not a hard and fast rule on which system to use but there are things that work better as a matter of practicality, like rear and mid engine cars usually use WTA coolers, Front engine cars with turbos or centrifugal blowers usually use ATA designs, PD blowers almost always use WTA coolers because of the blower placement. Usually the choice is more or less dictated by FI type and engine location. You can make anything work but your goal should be efficiency, reliability and weight savings.

WTA systems have more pieces, likely add more weight, can be less reliable and may require more maintenance. ATA systems are usually simpler and less expensive but can introduce a throttle lag as the charged air is usually forced to travel a longer distance from blower discharge to throttle body. ATA systems also have a larger pressure drop across the cooling core and that can mean the system will need to generate higher boost levels at the charged air outlet to equal the same final boost level at the throttle body.

There are many things to consider when you make a decision of what FI system to run. I can not really tell you what would be best for you because I still do not know what your goals are.

I can think of a few more questions that would be good to think about.

1. Is this a track day car or a street car?

2. What tire and sizes will you be running when you are on track?

3. Are you willing to remove weight from the car? How aggressively?

These are the kind of things along with the first set of questions you really need to have figured out before you can make a decision about what to build.

Dave

 

[wildcatgoal]

Agree that another thing to consider is weight. If you have a GT, you already have a lot of weight up front to deal with. Slapping on another 100 lbs. of stuff way up front... you'll notice that and have to compensate with suspension. I'd think, anyway... especially where the centri's hang off the engine (same with most single turbo options, available or upcoming). I'd love me a simple single turbo. that gets me to 600 with a high fidelity power band.

 

[Scott Wilson]

The more I think about it the more Im thinking procharger. Heck I am even starting to think to abandon the idea and do some weight saving and less rotational mass. One of my fears the more I try to imagine a supercharger on the car, is that nose diving is going to get much worse. Even going from the big turbo eco to the NA GT with similar supspension setups its noticeable.

 

[xXANCHORMONXx]

The more I think about it the more Im thinking procharger. Heck I am even starting to think to abandon the idea and do some weight saving and less rotational mass. One of my fears the more I try to imagine a supercharger on the car, is that nose diving is going to get much worse. Even going from the big turbo eco to the NA GT with similar supspension setups its noticeable.

Exactly.

You don't want to do this.

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