Bigger benefit

[StrongFord]

What would have the bigger benefit for occasional HPDE days? Car is more daily driver than track, so it has to be road friendly.

Replace factory 255/40R19 Nero Zero all season tires with summer performance tires (thinking Potenza Pole Position). Would like go 285/35/R19 if I could swing wider wheels too.

or

A big brake kit to replace factory 4 piston front set up. Maybe the factory Brembo PP set up.

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[NightmareMoon]

Have you done any HPDE yet with the car? Usually tires are the weak link, especially with A/S tires. Tires help braking, cornering, and accelerating.

Even if you wanted more brakes, I'd go with more aggressive (higher temp) pads long before I upgraded the calipers.

 

[StrongFord]

Have you done any HPDE yet with the car? Usually tires are the weak link, especially with A/S tires. Tires help braking, cornering, and accelerating.

Even if you wanted more brakes, I'd go with more aggressive (higher temp) pads long before I upgraded the calipers.

Yep, I've done about 4 HPDE's and a few auto-x's. Thanks for the recommendation.

 

[NightmareMoon]

In that case I would ask if you have experienced issues with your stock brakes. If not, definitely go with better tires.

 

[StrongFord]

In that case I would ask if you have experienced issues with your stock brakes. If not, definitely go with better tires.

When I'm aggressive I notice the brakes do fade a bit after a few runs. I don't stand on them as hard as some guys, but I can smell them and I have seen them smoking in the paddock. Then I take it easier. I'm a novice and trying to work on keeping the car balanced and smooth, but I have ways to go.

My tires squeal pretty regularly around the track, but not losing grip often.

If you're interested here's a lap around with my last HPDE OTD.

 

[kz]

Good summer tires will get you way more grip than P Zero Neros - which aren't very good. I replaced them with stock sized Potenzas S-04 for driving in the summer and they're _way_ better. (For auto-x have a set of RE-71Rs).

 

[NightmareMoon]

Theres mothing wrong learning on slower tires, as long as you like their breakaway behavior and they're safe enough.

If you're getting some brake fade, if you could describe it more, we could help pin down if its due to brake pads, fluid, or overheated tires.

 

[EFI]

Definitely the tires. Improving braking performance without improving traction is pointless...you're not going to stop any sooner even if you put 20 piston brakes if the tires are just going to lock up on you.

Even the stock 4 piston brakes are more than enough to potentially lockup the Pirellis. Also, if you improve tire compound, you improve braking also.

So to summarize:

upgrade brakes - almost no benefit in stopping power (without upgrading tires)
upgrade tires - improve handling AND braking

Seems like a nobrainer.

 

[DivineStrike]

Definitely the tires. Improving braking performance without improving traction is pointless...you're not going to stop any sooner even if you put 20 piston brakes if the tires are just going to lock up on you.

Even the stock 4 piston brakes are more than enough to potentially lockup the Pirellis. Also, if you improve tire compound, you improve braking also.

So to summarize:

upgrade brakes - almost no benefit in stopping power (without upgrading tires)
upgrade tires - improve handling AND braking

Seems like a nobrainer.

Uh no, if he's having fade issues already, better tires will just worsen that. Brakes aren't just about stopping power, but also about maintaining heat for braking consistency.

285/35s are a really great size for our cars. I just recently upgraded to that size and it's worlds better. Car should come with 285s from th factory. But since yours has base suspension, I'd highly suggest brakes, suspension then tires...or all three at once

You might be able to get away with better pads and fluid if you're on a budget, but if you want to go BBK, plan on consistently tracking and keeping your car...invest in the Essex AP racing system. Unfortunately they're almost triple what you can get PP brakes for. So, if you can find the PP calipers and hardware, get those without rotors and get two piece rotors.

Aside from brakes, like I said before, I would highly recommend upgrading shocks, struts and springs. With my tire selection, I should really upgrade my PP suspension as well. Which I plan to. Just have to decide how much I really want to spend.

 

[EFI]

Uh no, if he's having fade issues already, better tires will just worsen that. Brakes aren't just about stopping power, but also about maintaining heat for braking consistency.

If he's fading now, it's most likely the OEM fluid. So spending $4k on a BBK is not going to do squat if he doesn't have the fluid, or if he has stock tires.

In the end it's all a balancing act and both pieces work together. But brakes are only as good as the tires to stop, so unless the guy is on some R compounds or slicks I don't see the stock brakes not being enough to stop the car with some proper pads and fluid. Him getting the full blown AP racing kit is going to help with fade but he won't stop any shorter on the same times. So spending $4k for improved fade resistance is a bit much when he can get the same fade resistance from proper fluid.

 

[DivineStrike]

He needs to address his brake issue first. I already mentioned fluids and pads. Which hopefully he can get away with but with smaller brakes comes increased heat, which relates to greater chance of fade. Just depends how fast he is. While I do agree a minor tire upgrade won't hurt much or exceed his stock brakes if changing pads and fluids fixes his fading issues. Going to 285 summer tires though is a big change, they could easily be too much for the standard brakes even with fluid and pads. Just depends on what he really wants to do.

 

[Trackaholic]

IMO, brakes are the most important component from a confidence and safety standpoint. I would therefore address braking issues first. If you are already seeing fade with all season tires, it will just get worse if you move to summer or R-comps.

It is possible that a pad and fluid upgrade is all you will need for now, at which point you can go with better performing tires relatively soon. Of course, as you get faster you may need to address the brakes once again.

Or, you can go overboard on the brakes now, such that they are ready for any increase in your speed as you improve and make other changes.

Whether you go all-in on brakes right away, or gradually update them based on need is more about personal preference, but at a minimum I'd at least get the brakes sorted with your current tires first.

-T

 

[daltron]

Pads, fluid, then new wheels and tires.

 

[Roger]

Daltron hit right on the head, if you go with 285 depending on the wheel and tire setup you will also need spacers

 

[StrongFord]

Thanks for the input guys. I am on stock pads, fluid and A/S tires. I did upgrade to Ford PP suspension and BMR linear minimal lowering springs, I failed to mention that.

Sounds like pads, fluid, wheels/tires are in order. I'll have to start a GoFundMe!

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