Heel and toe through multiple gears

[EFI]

My previous manual car on the track was setup in such a way that I could use 3rd and 4th gears for 95% of the time, with rare downshifts to 2nd from 3rd. On most straightaways it was a simple 4 - 3 heel and toe downshift coming into the first corner.

However with the tight gearing on the Mustang and this one course with a really long straightaway and a very tight turn 1, I will be definitely going into 5th and would need to downshift to at least 3rd if not 2nd. This means for the first time I will be needing to downshift more than 1 gear very quickly.

So how would you guys do the downshift from 5 to either 3 or 2? Go through each gear heel and toeing each time, or just do it once from 5th and straight into 2nd?

Sponsored

 

[chedder]

I routinely go from 6th to 4th with one movement and single blip. 150mph, hard braking down to 60mph into long sweeping left turn. 2 different tracks here in the northwest. Works fine.

 

[BlkGT3]

My previous manual car on the track was setup in such a way that I could use 3rd and 4th gears for 95% of the time, with rare downshifts to 2nd from 3rd. On most straightaways it was a simple 4 - 3 heel and toe downshift coming into the first corner.

However with the tight gearing on the Mustang and this one course with a really long straightaway and a very tight turn 1, I will be definitely going into 5th and would need to downshift to at least 3rd if not 2nd. This means for the first time I will be needing to downshift more than 1 gear very quickly.

So how would you guys do the downshift from 5 to either 3 or 2? Go through each gear heel and toeing each time, or just do it once from 5th and straight into 2nd?

Be very careful going from 5th to 2nd if you don't wait until just before turn in you stand a good chance of a mechanical over rev.

Peter

 

[wildcatgoal]

I'm just envious you guys can successfully downshift while negotiating a turn and so forth...

TEACH ME!

 

[EFI]

Be very careful going from 5th to 2nd if you don't wait until just before turn in you stand a good chance of a mechanical over rev.

Well yeah, that's why I was kinda thinking of just going through the gears themselves sort of a progression.

I'm just envious you guys can successfully downshift while negotiating a turn and so forth...

You're not supposed to be downshifting and turning, that's a big no no. You're supposed to get all your shifting done before turn in...so it's just during straightline braking.

 

[F0J]

I find that the engine nannies get in the way of downshifting multiple gears. I don't have much experience but I think I'd tackle that kind of corner by worrying about the breaking first (lotta speed) and then just memorize a gear*rev and shift somewhere around the middle apex.

So:

1) Break and clutch to neutral. Give some time for the engine to wind down and let the nannies do their thing.
2) Once you have your turn angle, hit the throttle at some pre-calculated rev and gear it.

 

[chedder]

The ideal is to trail brake into the turn, downshifting to a gear you want for the exit that is mustang rpm. That way when you ease onto the throttle there is torque without major up. Our cars do good at that. Less rpm's do wonders. Less chance of spinning the car. Just remember, it takes a long time to master these maneuvers, not just in one day. Work on it on back roads by yourself with radio off. Listen and feel the car and tires.

 

[wildcatgoal]

You're not supposed to be downshifting and turning, that's a big no no. You're supposed to get all your shifting done before turn in...so it's just during straightline braking.

Well I meant like... getting prepared for a turn and thinking about the apex and all that jazz-a-roony. Wasn't clear.

And sometimes you have to break when turning, like when Jessica Alba is standing on the road and needs a ride. :shrug:

 

[MaverickGT]

3rd gear is sufficient for most turns even down to 30 mph. Not sure your track, but there's a track I run that has a long straight I'm in 5th on then slow down into a series of short turns that are 30mph max. I would downshift from 5th to 4th then 3rd as you're braking and be in third before the start of the turn.

 

[SteveW]

Well I meant like... getting prepared for a turn and thinking about the apex and all that jazz-a-roony. Wasn't clear.

And sometimes you have to break when turning, like when Jessica Alba is standing on the road and needs a ride. :shrug:

Heel-toe downshifting is more like ball of foot/side of foot for me. Size 11 feet. It does help to be driving hard to learn how to do it ironically. Heavier inputs to brake and gas make it easier to "heel-toe" for me than just cruising around on the street. When you get a feel for it it just takes a dip of the clutch rather than fully depressing it to make it smooth and quick.

Accelerating, braking cornering and blending it together is best thought of when visualizing a traction circle. In simple terms, figure a tire can generate max 1g of grip on the surface.

If you are accelerating at 1g then there is no reserve of grip to turn. Same with braking or turning left or right. Max of 1g for this example.

Now, when you come at a corner and are braking in a straight line at 1g in order to start the turn you have to come off the brakes. (if you don't you just plow straight off the track past the turn) Just before the turn in point smoothly come off the brakes then start turning the wheel and build lateral gs.

Get the car aimed at the apex and once you are headed for it start applying throttle slowly. Don't upset the balance front to rear with too much throttle through the corner. Unwind the wheel to the exit of the corner and you should be able to apply full throttle to get down the straight to the next turn.

Ride that arc smoothly around the traction circle from max braking to turning to accelerating. Make sense?

 

[Gatorac]

When I teach drivers to heel/toe, I always recommend they go through each gear rather than skipping. The goal is to commit as much of the driving to muscle memory. You don't want to tie up any of your conscious brain on figuring out what gear you are actually in and if you've slowed down enough to actual let the clutch out yet. I go through each gear and give the throttle blip each time. I do not let the clutch out until I get to the gear that I'm going to enter the corner in. This keeps me in a rhythm while minimizing the opportunity for screwing up the heel/toe. This action is almost completely muscle memory for me now. My attention is focused mainly on carrying as much speed into the corner, balancing the grip on turn in and getting back to throttle asap.

I have a 3 step process I teach in my classroom session on learning to heel/toe. It's not something you will learn at the track in 1 day.

 

[NightmareMoon]

^ good advise.

If its seems like you don't have much time to shift, well, worst thing you can do is rush your shifts (up or downshifts). Take your time and make them smooth.

Without double clutching, I think its probably going to be easiest on the transmission to shift through each gear, letting the clutch out a bit between gears to spool up the transmission to road speed. If you can double clutch, then its just about waiting until road speed is truly low enough to shift into 3rd gear w/o over reving.

 

[JamesinLittleSilver]

When I teach drivers to heel/toe, I always recommend they go through each gear rather than skipping. The goal is to commit as much of the driving to muscle memory. You don't want to tie up any of your conscious brain on figuring out what gear you are actually in and if you've slowed down enough to actual let the clutch out yet. I go through each gear and give the throttle blip each time. I do not let the clutch out until I get to the gear that I'm going to enter the corner in. This keeps me in a rhythm while minimizing the opportunity for screwing up the heel/toe. This action is almost completely muscle memory for me now. My attention is focused mainly on carrying as much speed into the corner, balancing the grip on turn in and getting back to throttle asap.

I have a 3 step process I teach in my classroom session on learning to heel/toe. It's not something you will learn at the track in 1 day.

What to give us the cliff notes to your three step process? I try to work on it but getting enough speed into turns to feel right is hard daily driving.

 

[jabrax]

What to give us the cliff notes to your three step process? I try to work on it but getting enough speed into turns to feel right is hard daily driving.

i cant blip the throttle comfortably in daily driving. I need to put pressure on the brake to reach the gas. I am getting more comfortable on the track. I just purchased a Steeda heel/toe gas peddle to try.

 

[Gatorac]

Here's step 1. Find the spot you can put your foot on the brake pedal that you can get to the gas pedal. This will typically be with the the right edge of the brake pedal hitting the middle of your foot. I will roll my foot to the right and hit the gas pedal with the side of my shoe. A pedal cover like the one from Steeda might help on the Mustang. Once you have that spot, use it everytime you go for the brakes. Your goal is to commit that to muscle memory. You don't want to be heading down to turn one thinking about where your foot goes on the brake pedal. I don't care if your driving on track, driving to work or picking your mother in law up from her mani-pedi, put your foot on the brake pedal in that same spot. Don't worry about any other aspect of the heel/toe motion for now. Just work on the muscle memory of getting your foot on the brake pedal in the right place.

Sponsored