2018 Mustang refresh?

[15wile]

You and me both ;)

I must refresh the page and look for updates on this thread half a dozen times a day in the hope of new information. Will we see or hear anything before Ford launches it at a major show? If not, that's gonna be a looooooong 4 or 5 months :eyebulge:

You gonna pull the trigger on the MY18?

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[15wile]

I can't imagine that Ford isn't at least weighing the option to put the 5.2L in the next GT. They've had essentially the same motor (incremental improvements) for 6 model years now. That's a long time to sit on their laurels.

Ford was content to outsell the Camaro with an inferior performance car all through the '90s and early '00s. This feels familiar. Then, as now, the Mustang is a more mass-appealing package for a number of reasons but a true performance car fan would have to pass it up.

If there's no substantive improvement for 2018, I'll have to go back to looking at 480hp Scatpack (or the new T/A package?) Challengers and try to wrapping my head around buying a car that big...or just keep my S197 and wait longer? :(

There is something to be said for the fact that the Mustang is basically the fastest car in its price brackets. There's nothing else on the market that you can buy new for $30k-ish that's as fast as a base GT (and the EB competes well in the $24-25k price bracket, also). I'd like to see Ford keep that market segment... but also introduce something a little beefier for maybe a Mach 1 trim, or something else similar, to compete more with the Camaro, at a higher price point, of course. They could do both, and I'd be happy.

 

[Bullitt]

I can't imagine that Ford isn't at least weighing the option to put the 5.2L in the next GT. They've had essentially the same motor (incremental improvements) for 6 model years now. That's a long time to sit on their laurels.

Ford was content to outsell the Camaro with an inferior performance car all through the '90s and early '00s. This feels familiar. Then, as now, the Mustang is a more mass-appealing package for a number of reasons but a true performance car fan would have to pass it up.

If there's no substantive improvement for 2018, I'll have to go back to looking at 480hp Scatpack (or the new T/A package?) Challengers and try to wrapping my head around buying a car that big...or just keep my S197 and wait longer? :(

That mass-appealing package is what is going to keep it selling double the Camaro and in production. The same can't be said for the Camaro which is looking like it's headed for another 2002 demise if they don't change things soon. They made it too good which made it too expensive, then all the dealers ordered loaded cars, and then they wonder why no one other than the few thousand diehards are willing to pay 45k+ for a Camaro. I think thousands of "true performance car fans" on this forum would disagree with you as they've all bought the S550 and loved it. And if you think the Mustang handling isn't good enough I don't know why you're even considering Challengers.

 

[lemers]

I can't imagine that Ford isn't at least weighing the option to put the 5.2L in the next GT. They've had essentially the same motor (incremental improvements) for 6 model years now. That's a long time to sit on their laurels.

Ford was content to outsell the Camaro with an inferior performance car all through the '90s and early '00s. This feels familiar. Then, as now, the Mustang is a more mass-appealing package for a number of reasons but a true performance car fan would have to pass it up.

If there's no substantive improvement for 2018, I'll have to go back to looking at 480hp Scatpack (or the new T/A package?) Challengers and try to wrapping my head around buying a car that big...or just keep my S197 and wait longer? :(

Do you really think that Ford can take the gas mileage hit over the entire Mustang GT line with 16 MPG? How many people are willing to pay and extra $1300 when you label it Gas Guzzler Tax?

The 5.2 will only be in limited number for that alone

 

[Cardude99]

It would be nice to see the 5.2L motor in 2018, I'd like to see a detuned version for the gt at about 470-480 hp and 425-430 tq. Then use the tuned version in 2019 and bring back the Mach 1. Granted this is all highly unlikely but it would be nice. That would give the gt 350 one more year of production. I would have to imagine that it has one maybe 2 more years max.

 

[GOFAST]

Do you really think that Ford can take the gas mileage hit over the entire Mustang GT line with 16 MPG? How many people are willing to pay and extra $1300 when you label it Gas Guzzler Tax?

The 5.2 will only be in limited number for that alone

Do we already know what the 5.2 CPC gets in MPG? If so, is the the best case scenario?

I know they use DI, but Chevy is getting INSANE MPG on the much bigger liter LT1.

I assume you are just referring to the FPC Voodoo? I think they could squeeze mid 20's out of a 5.2 CPC no prob, albeit maybe a de-tuned version.

 

[GOFAST]

It would be nice to see the 5.2L motor in 2018, I'd like to see a detuned version for the gt at about 470-480 hp and 425-430 tq. Then use the tuned version in 2019 and bring back the Mach 1. Granted this is all highly unlikely but it would be nice. That would give the gt 350 one more year of production. I would have to imagine that it has one maybe 2 more years max.

Isn't that similar to what they did last Gen with the Boss 302? My Mustang history isn't great, but thought the Coyote was the tuned version of what the 5.0 GT was running in that same Gen. Here to hoping history repeats itself

 

[MRGTX]

There is something to be said for the fact that the Mustang is basically the fastest car in its price brackets. There's nothing else on the market that you can buy new for $30k-ish that's as fast as a base GT (and the EB competes well in the $24-25k price bracket, also). I'd like to see Ford keep that market segment... but also introduce something a little beefier for maybe a Mach 1 trim, or something else similar, to compete more with the Camaro, at a higher price point, of course. They could do both, and I'd be happy.

I hear you on this. The 1SS starts ~$5k higher than a 300A GT.
That's not insignificant and it probably explains a lot of the gap in the sales numbers.

I believe that GM has largely opted not to offer the Camaro to fleet sales for this generation where Ford sends lots and lots and lots of Mustangs. That may also be a factor in the sales numbers but I'd need to see more on that.

In any case, GM is intentionally moving the Camaro up market a bit...which is looking like a losing strategy from a sales perspective.

Do you really think that Ford can take the gas mileage hit over the entire Mustang GT line with 16 MPG? How many people are willing to pay and extra $1300 when you label it Gas Guzzler Tax?

The 5.2 will only be in limited number for that alone

You could be right...you could also be wrong. I don't think anyone is assuming that this will be the same Voodoo FPC version of the 5.2L...so we don't know what it will do in terms of fuel economy (assuming it's even going to happen).

 

[lemers]

Do we already know what the 5.2 CPC gets in MPG? If so, is the the best case scenario?

I know they use DI, but Chevy is getting INSANE MPG on the much bigger liter LT1.

I assume you are just referring to the FPC Voodoo? I think they could squeeze mid 20's out of a 5.2 CPC no prob, albeit maybe a de-tuned version.

Chevy is also using cylinder deactivation to get better gas mileage (auto trans) on the highway

So with DI, Cylinder Deactivation, and variable valve timing the auto 6.2 is still 17 city and 28 highway.


Making the engine a 5.2 will add power but take away gas mileage, but adding DI to the 5.0 will increase power and supposed to increase gas mileage.


I still don't see the need for the 5.2 unless Ford is "that" far behind the Camaro in performance.

 

[MRGTX]

... And if you think the Mustang handling isn't good enough I don't know why you're even considering Challengers.

Because of that glorious motor...and because it's not a Camaro!

I never said the Mustangs handling wasn't good enough...it just gets its butt kicked by the Camaro.

 

[Twin Turbo]

Making the engine a 5.2 will add power but take away gas mileage, but adding DI to the 5.0 will increase power and supposed to increase gas mileage.

Indeed, lets not get carried away. I'll honestly don't think we'll see the 5.2 CPC (or something related to it) in the '18GT. We may not even see it in an SE.

A revised 5.0 with perhaps DI and some other goodies. Maybe good for 450hp and 420lb/ft......and an increase in 1 or 2 MPG.....THAT'S what I'd I'd expect for the GT for '18

 

[15wile]

I hear you on this. The 1SS starts ~$5k higher than a 300A GT.
That's not insignificant and it probably explains a lot of the gap in the sales numbers.

I believe that GM has largely opted not to offer the Camaro to fleet sales for this generation where Ford sends lots and lots and lots of Mustangs. That may also be a factor in the sales numbers but I'd need to see more on that.

In any case, GM is intentionally moving the Camaro up market a bit...which is looking like a losing strategy from a sales perspective.

It is... Also, the dealers are ordering loaded cars. I checked locally, and it's almost impossible to find any SS under $40k -- even after dealer-advertised discounts and rebates.

Meanwhile, I can find Base Mustang GTs advertised under $30k all day long. Tons to choose from at that price (Brandon Ford and Greenway Ford have like 10+ at that price). Even Performance Pack GTs are hovering around $33k if you dig a bit.

I don't know if this is just because the dealers aren't budging on their Camaros, or what... but to a regular guy buying a cheap V8 muscle car... that's an easy $10k effective price spread (even if MSRP spread is closer to $5k). V6 Camaros are coming in higher than a lot of basic GTs. And then they wonder why nobody is buying them.

If the prices were the same, people would be flocking to the Camaro in droves. But they aren't, and it may be that Ford found the better price/performance balancing point, if sales numbers are any indicator.

 

[lemers]

Just out of curiosity I did the Build on the chevy site for a Camaro SS.

I wasn't picking everything by any means, but I was able to get a coupe to $55K with options that I would had ordered.

Sure you can get a bare bones Camaro, but Chevy nickels and dimes you to death for a lot of things.

I don't like that Ford does the "take it or leave it" packages either. But $150 for black front and back bow ties? It not like they are still giving me the gold "take off" ones

 

[Spartan]

You and me both ;)

You and me and him triple. ;)

FYI here's more on the transmission just some basic stuff.

http://www.marketwatch.com/story/once-unthinkable-mustang-and-camaro-collaborate-2016-08-22

“We will each use our own control software to ensure that each transmission is carefully matched to the individual, brand-specific vehicle DNA for each company,” Craig Renneker, Ford’s chief engineer of transmission and driveline components and pre-program engineering, said when the auto makers announced their 2013 deal.

 

[Spartan]

Just out of curiosity I did the Build on the chevy site for a Camaro SS.

I wasn't picking everything by any means, but I was able to get a coupe to $55K with options that I would had ordered.

Sure you can get a bare bones Camaro, but Chevy nickels and dimes you to death for a lot of things.

I don't like that Ford does the "take it or leave it" packages either. But $150 for black front and back bow ties? It not like they are still giving me the gold "take off" ones

A pretty good loaded 2SS is like $48k...not sure what you are adding but if you added the brakes that's a wasted $3000 right there.

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