2018 Mustang refresh?

[AmericanLegend]

1. Street racing is illegal and wrong. I would encourage you to not do it.
2. Absolute speed is not the only reason to buy a car.
3. If you really have to have a faster car, spend the extra money and buy a Camaro. Or buy a Mustang and spend what you saved on go faster parts. I don't really care what you do.
4. Have you driven a new Camaro yet? Have you driven a new Mustang? Drive them both on the same day and pick one. No need to hang onto your 2011 forever.

I don't hate on the Camaro or GM for that matter.
I've been a Ford / Mustang fan for decades....BUT, I was very impressed with the new Camaro on paper when it first came out. Reading all the review articles gushing over the new Camaro.
My thoughts were that maybe it was time to have a small block GM V8 (LT1) and buy a 6th Gen Camaro?!

Then I went and actually drove a Camaro. Then I drove the S550 Mustang GT PP. After comparing the two in real life driving....I though to myself, "What was I thinking?!?" I bought the Mustang GT PP and absolutely love it.

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[Petroleum Jesus]

I don't hate on the Camaro or GM for that matter.
I've been a Ford / Mustang fan for decades....BUT, I was very impressed with the new Camaro on paper when it first came out. Reading all the review articles gushing over the new Camaro.
My thoughts were that maybe it was time to have a small block GM V8 (LT1) and buy a 6th Gen Camaro?!

Then I went and actually drove a Camaro. Then I drove the S550 Mustang GT PP. After comparing the two in real life driving....I though to myself, "What was I thinking?!?" I bought the Mustang GT PP and absolutely love it.

This mirrors my experience. The Camaro looked awesome in the mags. The journos said it put the mustang to shame. I went and drove both. The Mustang looked better and drove better. I felt more esteemed just having driven it. The camaro just seemed off, in every way. It was no contest.

 

[thePill]

Yah...you don't need the brakes...they come already with brembos on all 4 corners. These $3k ones are the upgraded brakes for extreme track use.

The black 5 spoke rims are almost identical to the black rims with the red. Seen both in person...not sure why anyone would spend on those rims anyway lol.

You are not serious right?

The stock SS rotors are 13 inches by 28-30mm. Yes, YOU NEED MORE ROTOR. Theses things get hot and boil fluid quick. Better off getting a 355+mmx32-34mm.

The SS also needs 19's and a 255/265 up front. The camaro simply lacks realistic options in these areas. The Brembo calipers build heat quickly on a 13 inch rotor.

 

[MRGTX]

...
Then I went and actually drove a Camaro. Then I drove the S550 Mustang GT PP. After comparing the two in real life driving....I though to myself, "What was I thinking?!?" I bought the Mustang GT PP and absolutely love it.

This mirrors my experience. The Camaro looked awesome in the mags. The journos said it put the mustang to shame. I went and drove both. The Mustang looked better and drove better. I felt more esteemed just having driven it. The camaro just seemed off, in every way. It was no contest.

This is great to hear...and honestly, my experience, though the exact opposite, resulted in paralysis. I want to like the Mustang better...I just don't.

What did you guys like better about the Mustang GT over the Camaro SS?

For me, the only thing that was objectively better was visibility...and by all accounts, Camaro owners don't find this to be a problem (which is allegedly why GM didn't address this design aspect for the new body).

Mustang GT PP vs. Camaro 2SS test drives
Totally subjective:

Steering feel: Camaro
Shifter/clutch feel Camaro(!)
Ride quality: Camaro
Control of body motions: Camaro(!!!)
Throttle response: Camaro
Sensation of acceleration: CAMARO
Exhaust note: Camaro (dual mode exhaust is insane)
Tech: I couldn't care less...but Camaro slightly
Brakes actuation/response: Tie
Interior design: Mustang(!)
Seats: Both of the Mustang PP cars I drove had Recaros: awesome
Exterior design: Mustang...but only slightly.
Fit and finish: Tie...didn't really scrutinize here but nothing stood out
Price: MUSTANG- Ford is way more reasonable with option costs

The one that made my beloved S197 feel like an old shoe: Camaro (!)
The one I couldn't stop thinking about for two days: Camaro

REALLY hoping for something to bring that spark for the 2018 refresh. I don't want a Camaro...but holy crap is it great to drive. Ford: we have faith!!

 

[15wile]

Just wait. Everything is pointing towards a huge refresh here...kinda the S550 that should have been at launch like the Camaro had.

Better transmission, better power, better handling (most likely PP parts coming on base packages), better interior, refreshed exterior fascias, dual mode exhaust, magnetic ride, etc.

You may be right. On the other hand... I like the fact that the current Mustang is much cheaper than the Camaro. Yes, yes, the Camaro SS wins the race, but at what price? If Ford adds all that equipment on, and bumps power up a lot, and drops weight... that's all dollars, my friend. Today, you can still buy a brand new base GT under $30k if you're smart about it. You can get close to that even with base + PP. If the Mustang follows the Camaro... well it's damn near impossible to find Camaros under $40k in dealer stock.

The GT and the SS are fast leaving the "pony car" world, and entering the sports car world. Nice cars, don't get me wrong, but the pony car segment exists for a reason: we aren't made out of money. At least most of us, anyway.

 

[Twin Turbo]

I just bought my 2016 GT Premium /w perfomance package over a camaro 1LE. The cost was not the issue. The camaro simply couldn'the measure up in terms of quality.

That said, the Mustang is lacking in a few key areas. Here is my humble list of suggested changes that could fill those gaps.

1). Engine: A 5.2L Coyote with psuedo-GT350 heads, a revised intake package and direct injection could produce as much torque and more power than the LT1. I would trade up if the upgrade yielded a solid 50 ft lbs more torque, and a few extra horsepower for bragging rights.

2) Transmission: A 10 speed auto is all but confirmed. A 7 speed tremec manual would set the bar even higher, though it would not make business sense to offer it as standard fare for the GT.

3) Suspension: Magnetorheological Dampers should be offered with a more cohesive suspension to complement them. Once again, they shouldn't be standard on a GT.

4) Tires: Pirelli rubber should be replaced with Michelins ASAP.

5) Exterior: Revised hood and rear fascia wouldo be welcome. I'm sure they will tweet the front as well, but I'may not complaining.

4) Interior: GT350-esque steering wheel and shift knob would be welcome. I'm betting on a revised gauge cluster and a few stylistic tweeks to tie the new look together.

Yep, make all that standard on a full-spec'd Mach 1, and optional on the GT.

The only difference.....I don't see the GT getting the 5.2....least not during the S550's lifecycle. I'd love to see it offered in the Mach 1, but the GT could do with a gentle bump in power and torque for now.

 

[thePill]

The Camaro 1LE package should be pretty neat. $44k and a fairly shocking equipment list.

If the base SS is comparable to the GT350, this thing should be astounding.

The SS, at any level, including the 1Le, IS NOT competitive with a GT350.


That is just pure nonsense...

 

[Spartan]

You may be right. On the other hand... I like the fact that the current Mustang is much cheaper than the Camaro. Yes, yes, the Camaro SS wins the race, but at what price? If Ford adds all that equipment on, and bumps power up a lot, and drops weight... that's all dollars, my friend. Today, you can still buy a brand new base GT under $30k if you're smart about it. You can get close to that even with base + PP. If the Mustang follows the Camaro... well it's damn near impossible to find Camaros under $40k in dealer stock.

The GT and the SS are fast leaving the "pony car" world, and entering the sports car world. Nice cars, don't get me wrong, but the pony car segment exists for a reason: we aren't made out of money. At least most of us, anyway.

The things that will up the price the will be the exhaust and magnetic ride. I don't think the others will up the price that much at all because Ford will be tweaking the car to be where it should have been from the get go (especially the suspension/bounce). Maybe the transmission adds a few hundred dollars. Things like the new fascia/rears won't up the price. Maybe new full LEDs on the premium add a little. Digital stuff inside will just be part of premium trim.

But like you said you don't have to go premium trim on the GT and still get a great car.

 

[MRGTX]

You may be right. On the other hand... I like the fact that the current Mustang is much cheaper than the Camaro. Yes, yes, the Camaro SS wins the race, but at what price? If Ford adds all that equipment on, and bumps power up a lot, and drops weight... that's all dollars, my friend. Today, you can still buy a brand new base GT under $30k if you're smart about it. You can get close to that even with base + PP. If the Mustang follows the Camaro... well it's damn near impossible to find Camaros under $40k in dealer stock.

The GT and the SS are fast leaving the "pony car" world, and entering the sports car world. Nice cars, don't get me wrong, but the pony car segment exists for a reason: we aren't made out of money. At least most of us, anyway.

This is all true...
The only thing I'll add is that competition is good.

If Ford can match the Camaro and keep the price under control, GM will have to do the same. Right now the price difference is totally explained by the significant performance benefit for the Camaro....

...and yes, while the Mustang is selling much better, the higher transaction price means that Camaro is apparently still considered a financial success...and the lower numbers (and no fleet sales??) means the Camaro may become a more special car, enjoy higher residual values, a better image for subsequent generations.

WTF is wrong with me? I'm a Ford/Mopar nut! :headbonk:

 

[Petroleum Jesus]

The things that will up the price the will be the exhaust and magnetic ride. I don't think the others will up the price that much at all because Ford will be tweaking the car to be where it should have been from the get go (especially the suspension/bounce). Maybe the transmission adds a few hundred dollars. Things like the new fascia/rears won't up the price. Maybe new full LEDs on the premium add a little. Digital stuff inside will just be part of premium trim.

But like you said you don't have to go premium trim on the GT and still get a great car.

I don't see any reason to make dual-mode exhaust or magnetorheological dampers standard. Is anyone asking for this?

 

[15wile]

The things that will up the price the will be the exhaust and magnetic ride. I don't think the others will up the price that much at all because Ford will be tweaking the car to be where it should have been from the get go (especially the suspension/bounce). Maybe the transmission adds a few hundred dollars. Things like the new fascia/rears won't up the price. Maybe new full LEDs on the premium add a little. Digital stuff inside will just be part of premium trim.

But like you said you don't have to go premium trim on the GT and still get a great car.

If they push the Coyote up more with DI, or whatever, I'm going to bet dollars to donuts that will up the MSRP. If PP stuff becomes base, that adds to base price. Exhaust and magnetic ride... I'm fine with these as long as they stay OPTIONAL. I tossed out the sh*tty stock exhaust first thing when I bought this car.

But I'm telling you man... TANSTAAFL. If you get more performance out of the GT, price is going up. How do you think GM beat Ford in this? They charged more money, and used the spread to do some more R&D, and add some more expensive components.

It actually bothered me somewhat when the Camaro was released, because as soon as I saw the performance figures and the parts list... I was thinking well sh*t, now Ford is going to follow them and do the same stuff. And thus dies the $30k muscle car. Now it's the $40k muscle car (will be closer to $50k if you want the premium/packages/etc...).

Now I'm going to be straight with you for a moment. None of my usual bullsh*t fart jokes, self-deprecating humor, or comparisons to a wart on Rosie O'Donuts ass and tell you... I make good money these days. By good money, I mean just shy of $200k/year. I never buy sh*t on credit, you understand. Hate it man. Haaaaate it. $30k for a base GT? All day long, baby. I can pay for that sh*t after saving for a few months, ya know? Put away $5k/month for half the year... hey, instant GT and no payments.

But you start creeping up to $40k, $50k, even $60k. Well, now it's not trivial anymore. Now I have to start thinking... either I save cash for a year at that rate (which means no other toys, mind you) or it's loan time. Yeah, a GT spec'd up to a Camaro would be a fun drive. But then payment time comes. Sucks all the joy out of it for me. Other folks who aren't that fortunate... they are all payments. You make $50k/year, and it's all payments. But then the payments go too high, or the insurance bends you over. No $50k muscle car for you.

They say "the Camaro is more exclusive!" and I just hear "less people can drive a fun car." Now, I think Ford gets me on this, and that's why they still outsell the Camaro. But they are the last ones, my friend. Aside from a doggish 5.7L Challenger (and those often option high too), a Mustang GT is it. It's Mad Max's last V8. The last muscle car for the masses.

I'm saying I damn well don't want to see that come to an end. Ford can give y'all a Mach 1 with something like Camaro specs, and leave the cheap V8s for us folks who hate debt, or aren't made of money, and they'd do well.

 

[Hogie]

WTF do you do for a living?

 

[Petroleum Jesus]

WTF do you do for a living?

Judging by the length of that post... not a whole lot :headbonk:

 

[Carzzi]

Judging by the length of that post... not a whole lot :headbonk:

Probably has a night shift job.

 

[15wile]

Probably has a night shift job.

DJ on the weekends, do UX development and consulting during the week. Most of my best work is done at night.

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