Limp Mode on the Track

[TDC]

What he said + reports from standard Mustang GT owners who came back from track days with nothing but glowing reviews. Little did we know the Mt-82 tranny is probably running 300+ degrees but there is no temp sensor to shut the fun down.

After the limp mode issue came about one of the 6G members posted a thread of a 2012 Boss track rat dealing with 300 degree tranny temps and his efforts to reduce them.

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[Hack]

What he said + reports from standard Mustang GT owners who came back from track days with nothing but glowing reviews. Little did we know the Mt-82 tranny is probably running 300+ degrees but there is no temp sensor to shut the fun down.

After the limp mode issue came about one of the 6G members posted a thread of a 2012 Boss track rat dealing with 300 degree tranny temps and his efforts to reduce them.

After I had my 2015 base GT at the track I went to my dealer and asked them to check the fluids and change if necessary. They said everything was good, and I gave them more than ample opportunity to just change the fluids and bill me for the work. I even went so far as to bring it back to them a second time and asked for them to document that the fluids were fine, because it wasn't on the paperwork the first time. They double-checked and still didn't change the fluids.

I don't think the MT-82 or rear differential got hot at all. The dealer said the fluid was fine afterwards, so I didn't change it. No problems - that 2015 MT-82 was the best shifting transmission I ever had in a car.

Based on my experiences with the 2015 GT at the track, I believed that Ford would make the GT350 tech package be at least similarly capable. That would have been perfect for me. There's no reason other than aesthetics to have those huge brakes on the car and then set the car up with inadequate cooling. I understand there is a ~90 HP difference between the cars, but I believe Ford's engineers could accommodate that difference without too terribly much trouble. I will never need those brakes on the street. If the tech package would have come with base GT brakes and smaller wheels and Ford would have said that it couldn't hold up to track time - that would have helped. To be completely honest, I would really have needed Ford to specifically say that the GT 350 base/tech couldn't run on the track as well as a base GT in order for me to expect this.

 

[bpracer]

...
I don't think the MT-82 or rear differential got hot at all. The dealer said the fluid was fine afterwards, so I didn't change it.
...

I'm sorry, but I really think that is wishful thinking.

 

[Hack]

I'm sorry, but I really think that is wishful thinking.

Why?

 

[KCRay]

I don't mean for this to be a "limp mode" question..........but it kinda fits this scenario - does anyone know if they have, or if they even do anymore, make "running changes" thru the model year where a late production car might have a different part or such than an early production car?

 

[combustor]

Why?

Because you can't tell just by looking at the fluid if it's broken down. Oil begins to break down very quickly at those high temperatures and you would never know without a lab analysis. If you wait until you can see metal shavings or spin a bearing, you're way too late.

The cheapest solution for Tech/Base owners who want to track occasionally might be to disable/fool the trans temp sensor and change the trans oil after every track event. Then you can run the whole session without going into limp mode and still protect the trans for the long term. This would be much cheaper and more practical than spending thousands on adding aftermarket coolers just for the occasional track day a few days per year.

 

[Spa2k]

I don't mean for this to be a "limp mode" question..........but it kinda fits this scenario - does anyone know if they have, or if they even do anymore, make "running changes" thru the model year where a late production car might have a different part or such than an early production car?

Sure, that's a normal part of the automotive manufacturing process. But if you're thinking that all of a sudden Ford will start adding coolers to 2016 Base and Tech Package cars, forget it. The cost for the parts is too high, and Ford won't just give them away.

 

[1320']

GM experienced a very similar issue with the A6 and initial A8 C7 Stingrays on the track. They'd overheat and go into limp mode.

GM quietly added all the extra coolers and ducting on the late 2015 and 2016 C7's. I'm not sure if they offered a retrofit to 2014 and 2015 Pre-cooler C7's or if they, in typical GM fashion (LS7 valve guides anyone?) denied there was a problem and told the owners to pound sand.

 

[Bossing]

GM experienced a very similar issue with the A6 and initial A8 C7 Stingrays on the track. They'd overheat and go into limp mode.

GM quietly added all the extra coolers and ducting on the late 2015 and 2016 C7's. I'm not sure if they offered a retrofit to 2014 and 2015 Pre-cooler C7's or if they, in typical GM fashion (LS7 valve guides anyone?) denied there was a problem and told the owners to pound sand.

GM did not offer an official customer-wide retrofit to previous Auto C7 owners w/o the supplemental cooler... although hope is not lost but it's on a case-by-case basis in regards to customer resolution. For example, a friend of mine is an early-MY2015 A8 Z51 Stingray owner who experienced limp mode on the track due to elevated trans temp and after multiple attempts with the dealership to address the issue, GM eventually gave him a $500 voucher to use as a goodwill gesture. He purchased the recently released cooler and had it installed. I haven't heard of any cooling-related problems from him since that.

 

[1320']

GM did not offer an official customer-wide retrofit to previous Auto C7 owners w/o the supplemental cooler... although hope is not lost but it's on a case-by-case basis in regards to customer resolution. For example, a friend of mine is an early-MY2015 A8 Z51 Stingray owner who experienced limp mode on the track due to elevated trans temp and after multiple attempts with the dealership to address the issue, GM eventually gave him a $500 voucher to use as a goodwill gesture. He purchased the recently released cooler and had it installed. I haven't heard of any cooling-related problems from him since that.

I never knew they released a cooler kit..that's good!

It's nice that cleared up his issues. I think GM learned from that and that's why the Camaro was so heavily overbuilt with the coolers it has.

 

[bpracer]

Because you can't tell just by looking at the fluid if it's broken down. Oil begins to break down very quickly at those high temperatures and you would never know without a lab analysis. If you wait until you can see metal shavings or spin a bearing, you're way too late.

The cheapest solution for Tech/Base owners who want to track occasionally might be to disable/fool the trans temp sensor and change the trans oil after every track event. Then you can run the whole session without going into limp mode and still protect the trans for the long term. This would be much cheaper and more practical than spending thousands on adding aftermarket coolers just for the occasional track day a few days per year.

What he said.

 

[KCRay]

Quote:
Originally Posted by KCRay
I don't mean for this to be a "limp mode" question..........but it kinda fits this scenario - does anyone know if they have, or if they even do anymore, make "running changes" thru the model year where a late production car might have a different part or such than an early production car?

Sure, that's a normal part of the automotive manufacturing process. But if you're thinking that all of a sudden Ford will start adding coolers to 2016 Base and Tech Package cars, forget it. The cost for the parts is too high, and Ford won't just give them away.

Actually, more than that, I was curious as to if ANY running changes had need made on the GT350's ?

 

[bpracer]

Quote:
Originally Posted by KCRay
I don't mean for this to be a "limp mode" question..........but it kinda fits this scenario - does anyone know if they have, or if they even do anymore, make "running changes" thru the model year where a late production car might have a different part or such than an early production car?

Sure, that's a normal part of the automotive manufacturing process. But if you're thinking that all of a sudden Ford will start adding coolers to 2016 Base and Tech Package cars, forget it. The cost for the parts is too high, and Ford won't just give them away.

Actually, more than that, I was curious as to if ANY running changes had need made on the GT350's ?

I don't think it was a "running" change, but originally Base, and Tech were NOT supposed to have engine oil coolers according to early literature, only Track and R. However they showed up with engine oil coolers.

 

[Hack]

Because you can't tell just by looking at the fluid if it's broken down. Oil begins to break down very quickly at those high temperatures and you would never know without a lab analysis. If you wait until you can see metal shavings or spin a bearing, you're way too late.

So what you're saying is that you are assuming the dealership techs don't know what they're doing and that you really have no idea. However you are assuming there must have been a problem. Gotcha.

I can tell you I had the car for 6 months afterwards with no problems or changes whatsoever.

 

[combustor]

So what you're saying is that you are assuming the dealership techs don't know what they're doing and that you really have no idea. However you are assuming there must have been a problem. Gotcha.

I can tell you I had the car for 6 months afterwards with no problems or changes whatsoever.

You're right, I'm sure those techs took a sample out of your tranny, put on some white coats, and analyzed it in the dealership lubrication laboratory :lol:

Transmissions are pretty robust in general and 6 months is nothing. It might go 50k or more before it gives up if you left that oil in there.

Techs "know what they're doing" as far as repairing a vehicle or replacing wear items according to the factory service manual, most of the time. They certainly don't see cars that have been tracked on a regular basis, those owners do their own wrenching. No matter how much wishful thinking you throw at it, exceed 250F very long, or approach 300F the oil rapidly degrades due to oxidation.

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