GT350 vs Camaro 1LE

[RyanR3KC]

No frazzle here but I don't frequent other manufacturer forums to "stickup for my car of choice". I don't need reassurance for my purchases of any kind. Cars, SUV, boats, houses, etc.

Actually not here to talk shit or "stick up for my car." I'm just glad we all bought american. I'm not a fanboi either. Both these cars have their merits and I can't wait for the face off.

If you want to be angry and sit in your Mom's basement and drink White Zinfandel out of a box to calm your frazzled nerves and hunt/peck responses to a forum, go right on ahead. Just have your Mom proofread your responses before hit submit. :cheers:

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[Voodooo]

Fully agreed, I was really just playing devil's advocate.

I agree the 1LE will be very close, in this segment of cars they are all so fast there is very little margin to be gained without huge aero or huge power, so when folks debate over half a second at X track vs .4 seconds at Y track its a bit silly. For 99/100 track day heros, laptimes will be limited by the driver and not the car itself. In that case buy the car that looks and sounds the best!

Which is the GT350 :ford:

 

[krt22]

That is a personal choice, the SN95 and pre coyote S197 cars really did zero for me, the coyote is what turned me to the current mustangs and the voodoo has found a permanent slot in my garage.

From a performance standpoint, the camaro is a great package on paper, I just never really liked the motor dynamic or styling

 

[mustang_guy]

Let's look at the pros and cons for the track that we know about for each car when unmodified. I'm just starting the list, please add your thoughts. Almost everything with the 1LE is obviously speculation at this point.

GT350TP:

+ very broad 4,000RPM+ power band
+ long gearing
+ more power from 6,000RPM and up
+ puts down power off a corner

- some understeer
- down by 25+ peak tq
- probably the heavier of the two, though it won't be by enough to matter I don't think


SS 1LE:

+ more power up to 6,000RPM
+ eLSD may help carry more speed through corners and neutral out handling
+ may be significantly lighter
+ forged wheels may drop significant rotating mass compared to the base GT350 wheels

- anemic after 6,000RPM
- down 60-70 peak hp
- narrower power band will likely require more shifting

Actually the gt350 makes more net torque everywhere. The gt350 is straight faster in acceleration. Just wanted to point that out.

 

[FPCV8YO]

To be fair, in the case of overheating GT350 tech pack cars, Lethal seems to be the outlier.

But we have plenty of other threads to talk about what Ford should have done and should be doing with regards to thermal management. Let's not let this thread be taken over by that.

Or, I'll start mentioning ADM again.

IMO the 1LE will probably be neck and neck with a GT350.

-T

Didn't Lethal remove the cats?

 

[GOFAST]

It's funny how this thread has degraded from a debate on performance capabilities to whatever the heck it is now. I thought we were here to decide if the SS 1LE was going to put up very close numbers to the GT350. Not sales numbers, personal preference, whether or not people care about track times, or if you'd be caught dead in a Camaro. Admittedly, I've gotten sucked into and contributed to some of it, but I'm very interested in more discussion on the original topic.

Amazingly, it's possible for one person to be interested in both cars. I've never owned a Camaro, but this one is interesting to me at the very least. GM has done a lot of things right with the new Camaro. They've done some things wrong too, but Ford doesn't get a pass on criticism either.

I agree. I Like part of whats being offered, but not sold on the whole package of the 6th Gen yet. I don't have anything against it, but it doesn't make me feel anything either. The S550 was that way too at first, and after seeing them on the roads I absolutely love it. I have a year or so to see if anything makes me want to pull the trigger. Who knows, a used 1LE down the road sounds like an insane bargain waiting to happen. I think a lot more will be sold this go around than the 5th Gen, and they won't hold value like the GT350's will.

 

[Nataphen]

Actually the gt350 makes more net torque everywhere. The gt350 is straight faster in acceleration. Just wanted to point that out.

It is, but there are points that it is at a disadvantage compared to the LT1 at a given RPM is all I meant. There's so much left above 6,000 that it shouldn't hurt the Voodoo much, if any. The straights are where I think the GT350 is going to gain its biggest lead.

Where the 1LE is going to have to make up the time is in the momentum it carries. The possibility of the wheel and tire combo weighing less could be an advantage for that, as well as the eLSD if it's well sorted out. I think the 1LE is only going to have a chance on the tighter tracks.

 

[GOFAST]

It is, but there are points that it is at a disadvantage compared to the LT1 at a given RPM is all I meant. There's so much left above 6,000 that it shouldn't hurt the Voodoo much, if any. The straights are where I think the GT350 is going to gain its biggest lead.

Where the 1LE is going to have to make up the time is in the momentum it carries. The possibility of the wheel and tire combo weighing less could be an advantage for that, as well as the eLSD if it's well sorted out. I think the 1LE is only going to have a chance on the tighter tracks.

That is the only way I see the 1LE competing as well. It will have to carry more speed through the turns. I think this car will be very fast.

 

[xt6wagon]

That is the only way I see the 1LE competing as well. It will have to carry more speed through the turns. I think this car will be very fast.

yah, I expect the 1LE to pick up some serious wieght, as most of the remotely reasonable wieght savings are already in the base Camaro. Can't switch steel to aluminum for the suspension arms to pay for the wieght gain of huge brakes if they are already aluminum. Can't get around huge wheels and tires weigh more than small ones. More rolling resistance and areo drag too.

Look at how far Ford went to keep the GT350 at the same weight for a comparable luxury level 5.0 GT. And it still gets really shit MPG despite the tall gearing, in part due to those huge tires.

My guess unless GM ships ringers to the magazines we are looking at a 12.5@113 car that has good grip in the corners. (if not slower)

 

[Spa2k]

Didn't Lethal remove the cats?

Yes.

 

[Rogue]

Say what you want about how great the 350 is as a track car and some are. But the truth is 72% of all 350's built so far can't finish much more then 5 laps without going into limp mode. They basically are not meant for any track days. Wait till summer hits. The mustang GT PP is more suited for track use and that's sad.
Ford totally screwed up and they know it.
All 17 350's get the coolers that should have been there in the first place.
Ford track events for owners ...recommends aftermarket coolers for the base and tech cars .
Otherwise don't bother.

The Shelby GT350 Track Pack and GT350R are currently among the best production track cars money can buy. I can't speak for any other variants.

 

[MAV]

That is a personal choice, the SN95 and pre coyote S197 cars really did zero for me, the coyote is what turned me to the current mustangs and the voodoo has found a permanent slot in my garage.

Agree 95%. Would be 100% except I was impressed by the styling of the 2005 Mustang when it first came out. Loved those classic lines. But since the demise of the old 302 in 1995, I have had exactly zero interest in the engine program until the Coyote. When the Voodoo rumors came out, I knew I was hooked.

 

[markham51]

The new platform definitely improved the Camaro from a performance point of view but the lines of the new car look like some kids designed it for a Transformers movie. I can't gather up the least bit of passion for it.

 

[Norm Peterson]

Uh yeah, not that it matters, but you cant just use a linear equation to determine HP based on displacement changes, especially in FI applications

I wish that was the case, he multiplied both of the camaro numbers by 1.15 (2.3/2) and came up with those numbers :shrug:

Forum racing at its finest.

I can't help it if my first-cut comparison bothers you. It wouldn't have made me feel any different if it'd gone the other way, nor are off-topic comments useful from a technical point of view.

Feel free to suggest a better approach to comparing these two engines, given only displacement, peak HP and peak torque. Entire torque curves would be better, but they weren't provided for me to work with.


Norm

 

[EF300]

The new platform definitely improved the Camaro from a performance point of view but the lines of the new car look like some kids designed it for a Transformers movie. I can't gather up the least bit of passion for it.

Totally agree , don't like the look but I am sure it will throw down huge performance which I appreciate. It's nice that Ford and Chevy continue to duke it out. They are turning out some great American muscle. Good for the car guys !

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