So the new gen7 whipple numbers are out........

[rolfe.oliver]

Recently saw an IG video with C8 owners lamenting about the struggles.

The PCM is largely cracked and open but they're still dealing with severe issues with the "TCM" for the transmission (which is still very locked). So basically you can spend a bunch of money upgrading your power plant and tune it but it ends up throwing the car into limp mode quite often because of the torque protections (not unlike the GT500 in some situations). Apparently you can upgrade clutches and add some piggy back modules to trick things but it still doesn't fully resolve all the issues.

4 years later and the car still isn't fully open for unlimited modifications. It's unclear how much of the stand alone market is available to them, but it's got to be better than the 16 injectors on the late model coyotes.

This is the biggest thing keeping C8s, and 2020+ GT500s, slow. People have thrown tens and hundreds of thousands of dollars at C8s, but the DCT lockdown is the limiting factor. The TCM notices any additional torque and just kills things. I mean, look at GT500s, they need like 1,000-1,100+hp to go 8s. The fastest GT500 needed to go TH400 just to get away from trans limitations.

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[Angrey]

This is the biggest thing keeping C8s, and 2020+ GT500s, slow. People have thrown tens and hundreds of thousands of dollars at C8s, but the DCT lockdown is the limiting factor. The TCM notices any additional torque and just kills things. I mean, look at GT500s, they need like 1,000-1,100+hp to go 8s. The fastest GT500 needed to go TH400 just to get away from trans limitations.

I thought the GT500 was down to just the launch RPM limit, (which I know is one of the things that MOTEC resolves, allowing the user to input whatever launch rpm they wish, rather than being restricted to a max of 3200 rpms). I hadn't heard they're still dealing with limp issues or any other things with the trans in manual mode.

It's curious how they could "crack" the C8 PCM but the TCM for both manufacturers remains inaccessible. Tremec must have better geeks

 

[rolfe.oliver]

I thought the GT500 was down to just the launch RPM limit, (which I know is one of the things that MOTEC resolves, allowing the user to input whatever launch rpm they wish, rather than being restricted to a max of 3200 rpms). I hadn't heard they're still dealing with limp issues or any other things with the trans in manual mode.

It's curious how they could "crack" the C8 PCM but the TCM for both manufacturers remains inaccessible. Tremec must have better geeks

Tremec seems to have put the strategy in Fort Knox.

People are putting Dodson clutches in the DCTs, which seem to be a bandaid, but shifts aren't hitting. Clutch pressures, torque limits, etc. are not adjustable.

 

[robvas]

https://www.motortrend.com/reviews/whipple-supercharged-2024-mustang-gt-drag-test/amp/

10.6/10.7 @ 135

It's a 6 speed car, I'd like to see how much faster an A10 would be

 

[rolfe.oliver]

https://www.motortrend.com/reviews/whipple-supercharged-2024-mustang-gt-drag-test/amp/

10.6/10.7 @ 135

It's a 6 speed car, I'd like to see how much faster an A10 would be

"830 whp" should be much higher MPH. Must be massive torque limits/reduction in. Whipple calibration.

 

[MAGS1]

Lethal put the video up on their YouTube channel too. Not a bad first few passes honestly. It’s a manual car and sounds like they hit the limiter a few times which bogged the car down a bit. You’ll notice in the video the brake lights flash during a couple shifts, looks like maybe the traction control was kicking in which would also slow the car down a bit. Sounds like they’re going to do some drag suspension upgrades via Kelltrac and then take it back out.

 

[shogun32]

"830 whp" should be much higher MPH. Must be massive torque limits/reduction in. Whipple calibration.

At this point why even bother? Power you can't put into forward motion is pointless.

Time for Mustang to go mid-engine!!

 

[Jasonb543]

I can’t understand why lethal (literally having access to just about everything)
Didn’t throw 17” slicks and skinnies on the damn thing… probably could’ve ran significantly quicker.

Like how are you that big in the industry and whiff.

 

[Timbuck]

like they said in the video , Now they will do suspension etc. They just wanted to see how it went totally stock. They said are shooting for low 10 or high 9 I do find it strange that they are getting so much heat , pretty obvious there is a whole bunch of stuff that is holding it back.
time Will tell I guess if they can match the power V track times.

 

[John123]

I can't say that I'm surprised...going back at least to 2018, Whipple implemented some sneaky programming that allowed more timing and delayed cat over-temp protection if it sensed that the front wheels are stationary and rear wheels spinning. This lead to high dyno numbers that would not translate to more actual performance. When the 2024 numbers started coming out, I wondered if that's how they were getting them but knew all would be revealed at the track. We all know that an 830 rwhp mustang should pull 145-148 in the quarter, but that would be A10 numbers. I don't know for sure that they are doing dyno tricks on the 2024, but are we to believe that the M6 is losing 10+ mph in the quarter due to the transmission?

 

[WildHorse]

They can do whatever suspension mods they want. Clutch protection will get em.

 

[Angrey]

The unspeakable truth is the 2024+ gen 7 has the whole industry shook. If they can't convince people to buy blower packages, then the entire industry is at risk, tuners, vendors, suppliers, people that make go fast parts. No need to upgrade things like axles and transmissions and fuel systems and all the high end race parts if the car is "canned" and limited.

Everyone is hoping for a future where it can return to what it was, an open affair where the sky was the limit.

The case for other "locked" management system has either been to pursue to crack it open OR to be faced with the significant cost increases of a stand alone system. Even the stand alone system is problematic because the gen7 has DI, so twice as many injectors, twice as many fuel pumps, etc. Some of the stand alone systems on the market can handle that, most can't. MOTEC was always the Cadillac because it was the only system on the market that could do all the wonders of a stand alone without having to run a second display or control method (i.e. integrated into the CANBUS and factory controls).

I'm hoping that there's stiffer competition in the stand alone market, but most of that is coming out of Australia because the US EPA lurks heavily and it's a stronger argument that something is "race only" or "offroad only" when it doesn't integrate into factory components.

To say that everyone is trying their best to sell the blown/whippled S650 would be an understatement. They HAVE to make it work. Otherwise the whole industry retrogrades severely.

I'm skeptical. Just from what I've observed with the C8 and the Dodge crowd and ultimately the frustrations surrounding the DCT. MOTEC eliminates the DCT issue, but MOTEC is unclear on whether they're going to offer an M150 system for the Gen3/Gen4 with 16 injectors (and all the R/D that goes into writing a base program for those cars for all the other things that the CANBUS operates).

There's several paths here, the usual players are taking the seemingly easiest route, hoping the PCM will eventually get cracked.

I however would also cultivate a different path (if it were me). I'd try to partner with one of the stand alones for a more economic/affordable package (even with a secondary display/control) that would open the car up fully, which would open up the market for all the extreme/race level upgrades (axles, driveshafts, fuel systems, cooling and intercooling systems, etc).

If the market is relegated to a lesser number of people who are content with JUST 800 or so rwhp, then a whole chunk of mustang aftermarket gets a huge haircut in volume.

 

[robvas]

How fast will the base package cars running on 93 be? 10mph slower? That would suck

 

[wazslow]

The unspeakable truth is the 2024+ gen 7 has the whole industry shook. If they can't convince people to buy blower packages, then the entire industry is at risk, tuners, vendors, suppliers, people that make go fast parts. No need to upgrade things like axles and transmissions and fuel systems and all the high end race parts if the car is "canned" and limited.

Everyone is hoping for a future where it can return to what it was, an open affair where the sky was the limit.

The case for other "locked" management system has either been to pursue to crack it open OR to be faced with the significant cost increases of a stand alone system. Even the stand alone system is problematic because the gen7 has DI, so twice as many injectors, twice as many fuel pumps, etc. Some of the stand alone systems on the market can handle that, most can't. MOTEC was always the Cadillac because it was the only system on the market that could do all the wonders of a stand alone without having to run a second display or control method (i.e. integrated into the CANBUS and factory controls).

I'm hoping that there's stiffer competition in the stand alone market, but most of that is coming out of Australia because the US EPA lurks heavily and it's a stronger argument that something is "race only" or "offroad only" when it doesn't integrate into factory components.

To say that everyone is trying their best to sell the blown/whippled S650 would be an understatement. They HAVE to make it work. Otherwise the whole industry retrogrades severely.

I'm skeptical. Just from what I've observed with the C8 and the Dodge crowd and ultimately the frustrations surrounding the DCT. MOTEC eliminates the DCT issue, but MOTEC is unclear on whether they're going to offer an M150 system for the Gen3/Gen4 with 16 injectors (and all the R/D that goes into writing a base program for those cars for all the other things that the CANBUS operates).

There's several paths here, the usual players are taking the seemingly easiest route, hoping the PCM will eventually get cracked.

I however would also cultivate a different path (if it were me). I'd try to partner with one of the stand alones for a more economic/affordable package (even with a secondary display/control) that would open the car up fully, which would open up the market for all the extreme/race level upgrades (axles, driveshafts, fuel systems, cooling and intercooling systems, etc).

If the market is relegated to a lesser number of people who are content with JUST 800 or so rwhp, then a whole chunk of mustang aftermarket gets a huge haircut in volume.

I've seen you say Dodge a few times. Which Dodges can't be tuned?

 

[HKusp]

https://www.motortrend.com/reviews/whipple-supercharged-2024-mustang-gt-drag-test/amp/

10.6/10.7 @ 135

It's a 6 speed car, I'd like to see how much faster an A10 would be

T

The unspeakable truth is the 2024+ gen 7 has the whole industry shook. If they can't convince people to buy blower packages, then the entire industry is at risk, tuners, vendors, suppliers, people that make go fast parts. No need to upgrade things like axles and transmissions and fuel systems and all the high end race parts if the car is "canned" and limited.

Everyone is hoping for a future where it can return to what it was, an open affair where the sky was the limit.

The case for other "locked" management system has either been to pursue to crack it open OR to be faced with the significant cost increases of a stand alone system. Even the stand alone system is problematic because the gen7 has DI, so twice as many injectors, twice as many fuel pumps, etc. Some of the stand alone systems on the market can handle that, most can't. MOTEC was always the Cadillac because it was the only system on the market that could do all the wonders of a stand alone without having to run a second display or control method (i.e. integrated into the CANBUS and factory controls).

I'm hoping that there's stiffer competition in the stand alone market, but most of that is coming out of Australia because the US EPA lurks heavily and it's a stronger argument that something is "race only" or "offroad only" when it doesn't integrate into factory components.

To say that everyone is trying their best to sell the blown/whippled S650 would be an understatement. They HAVE to make it work. Otherwise the whole industry retrogrades severely.

I'm skeptical. Just from what I've observed with the C8 and the Dodge crowd and ultimately the frustrations surrounding the DCT. MOTEC eliminates the DCT issue, but MOTEC is unclear on whether they're going to offer an M150 system for the Gen3/Gen4 with 16 injectors (and all the R/D that goes into writing a base program for those cars for all the other things that the CANBUS operates).

There's several paths here, the usual players are taking the seemingly easiest route, hoping the PCM will eventually get cracked.

I however would also cultivate a different path (if it were me). I'd try to partner with one of the stand alones for a more economic/affordable package (even with a secondary display/control) that would open the car up fully, which would open up the market for all the extreme/race level upgrades (axles, driveshafts, fuel systems, cooling and intercooling systems, etc).

If the market is relegated to a lesser number of people who are content with JUST 800 or so rwhp, then a whole chunk of mustang aftermarket gets a huge haircut in volume.

I am just thinking out loud here, but I have been ruminating on this thread and your input on it for several days now. I am wondering how feasible, if at all, would it be to get a Gen4 car and retrofit it with a Gen 3 PCM and run it and tune it that way? I am sure there are a few features that may not be supported, but for those that want a Gen4 car, but also have the ability to tune it unencumbered by the nanny state, could this be a solution?

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