So the new gen7 whipple numbers are out........

[junits15]

Ford can only infer based off the ignition cycles. And furthermore, they can only tell if you bring the car in for examination/work. If you reflash the PCM back to stock file, Ford can only tell that the data/metrics doesn't match the age/mileage of the vehicle.

This is a far cry from the new era where if you change something, it's going to either get over formatted with the next update or cause issues with other management systems.

Again, ALL of this can be worked around by clever people with enough time and effort. But some of this will inevitably trial and error (see what works and what bugs, then address it) and who knows how long (if ever) that's going to take.

Ford sold just shy of 50,000 mustangs in 2023.

It's an interesting question of whether there's enough gold at the end of this rainbow to make the juice worth the squeeze.

This isn't like cracking an Iphone where you have broad usage and interest. There's probably plenty of resources in the world that could get this done, but the likelihood that any of them give two shits about the poor mustang community is dubious at best.

"Abdi, what are you doing, we were supposed to ransom Kaiser Permanente for $30M this week." "Sorry Kasad, I was busy trying to crack the S650 PCM for all the mustang motorheads that anxiously want to add catless headers to their vehicle."

Ford isn’t counting ignition cycles they know when your car is flashed even if it’s presenting stock. There is no way to fool them currently.

ignition cycles makes it look cleaner and reduce suspicion but if they decide to check fully they always know

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[Angrey]

Ford isn’t counting ignition cycles they know when your car is flashed even if it’s presenting stock. There is no way to fool them currently.

ignition cycles makes it look cleaner and reduce suspicion but if they decide to check fully they always know

Someone would have to weigh in on whether that's discernable at the tech/dealership level. I'm sure with enough examination they could discover it, but plenty of people have reflashed back to stock for service and the ONLY issues that arise are when they look at the number of ignitions against the age/mileage. Are you saying that at service center at your local dealership they can tell if a vehicle has been reflashed using other markers?

 

[junits15]

that’s exactly what I’m saying.

 

[bankyf]

that’s exactly what I’m saying.

Would you care to elaborate on this? Both of my local Ford dealers techs have no idea about this, and I have Ford internal documentation from 2017 stating otherwise.

 

[Angrey]

that’s exactly what I’m saying.

Let's distinguish between what's possible and what's likely or practical.

Is it possible that a super sleuth at your local Best Buy geeks can recover your porn data after you've reformatted the hard drive? Is it likely?

As Banky is pointing out, the real world feedback (not just technically what's possible) is that the ONLY thing the dealership typically sees is that your start cycles don't match the mileage. Ford knows what the typical range of ignition cycles is for a given mileage and they also know what's impossible (i.e. the car has 30k, miles on it and 10 ignition cycles, unless you left the vehicle running while fueling on several cross country trips, it's impossible.)

They also have been advised to look for things like brand new OEM filter on a car with 25k miles (suggesting a different intake was employed and then swapped back).

Just because it's POSSIBLE doesn't mean Johnny Motorcraft at the service center has the geekery to prove you reflashed the PCM.

In any case, it's semantics. The point being, that without EXTRA EFFORT by Ford, many people can and do modify the car and return it back to what appears to be stock/OEM for things like recalls, updates and other service work. The point being, it's not a stretch to say that aspect will be threatened or probably gone with the new jail broken hardware and firmware.

 

[robvas]

You guys really think the Ford ECU is anywhere near as secure as say the latest iPhone?

 

[Angrey]

You guys really think the Ford ECU is anywhere near as secure as say the latest iPhone?

If it's so easy, why is the DCT still log jammed up?

 

[robvas]

If it's so easy, why is the DCT still log jammed up?

nobody said easy

but there's a difficulty scale here

do you honestly think it's as difficult of a hack as an iPhone?

 

[MAGS1]

nobody said easy

but there's a difficulty scale here

do you honestly think it's as difficult of a hack as an iPhone?

Goes back to Angrey’s point about time/money and ROI. It’s likely not as difficult as an iPhone but the financial returns for hacking the DCT for example are much lower. So people will do what they can but they’re not throwing massive resources at it because they’ll never recover those costs let alone make a profit.

 

[robvas]

Goes back to Angrey’s point about time/money and ROI. It’s likely not as difficult as an iPhone but the financial returns for hacking the DCT for example are much lower. So people will do what they can but they’re not throwing massive resources at it because they’ll never recover those costs let alone make a profit.

a lot of people hack shit for free (or the notoriety)

game systems etc

we just need the right guy to get pissed that he can't tune his 2024...

 

[MAGS1]

a lot of people hack shit for free (or the notoriety)

game systems etc

we just need the right guy to get pissed that he can't tune his 2024...

Those markets are much bigger so even for just notoriety a gaming system, a phone, etc makes way more sense than a Mustang.

Yes, if someone gets pissed off enough, they’ll find a way eventually. But I would still ask for what purpose when there are thousands and thousands of S550 and S197 available that can be tuned without having to go through that kind of brain damage. Hell, coyote swapping an SN95 or Fox is less brain damage.

 

[Angrey]

nobody said easy

but there's a difficulty scale here

do you honestly think it's as difficult of a hack as an iPhone?

Can you lift 5,000 lbs over your head? Can you lift 3,000 lbs over your head? At a certain point, it doesn't matter.

Can you survive for extended periods of time in 10' of water? Can you survive for the same time frame in 2,000' of water?

If it's unbroken, it doesn't matter if it's insanely difficult or just difficult. Either way it's unbroken.

 

[MKL_DS]

Would you care to elaborate on this? Both of my local Ford dealers techs have no idea about this, and I have Ford internal documentation from 2017 stating otherwise.

In for the answer here as well.
there is no means of confirming a tune on an S550 at the dealer level, unless you do some dumb shit like change the calibration ID.

 

[MKL_DS]

that’s exactly what I’m saying.

How?

 

[nnnnnn]

One of the expensive costs of the MOTEC is that MOTEC had to write their own firmware to replicate all/most the vehicle specific firmware to make the rest of the vehicle work while their new calibration systems of the M150 replace the factory computer.

Fun fact, I lost my FORSCAN build when I went to the M150. It's now reverted back to a version of what the original firmware was (so little things I had updated and corrected with respect to engine noise through the audio, chime volume, etc are now gone. I have no ability to use FORSCAN to change them anymore, I'm stuck with the MOTEC version of the Ford firmware).

From an interesting article below:

" In other words, instead of having individual modules that work separately and only communicate when they are required to do so, Ford has chosen to encrypt those modules as a full stack, which means each of the modules cannot be rewritten, and that the others might shut down or limit their functionality when this is detected."

Ford Mustang S650 Will Be Difficult to Tune, but Not Impossible - autoevolution

Side curiosity question, how do you like the MOTEC M150? Did you mainly get it for better torque management during launch/traction control?

Has it been worth it for you personally?

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