Your tax dollar at work .........

[NotagainV2]

OP just learned not all troops are stationed CONUS......

ROFL.

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[NotagainV2]

Im about 99% sure thar car was bought through AAFES and being shipped to TX.

 

[NotagainV2]

More I think about this the more I think it could be a great way to avoid dealership assclowns and ADM!!

 

[Reap]

Looks like the car is going to Switzerland.

Sorry, the car was purchased in Switzerland and delivered in Texas

 

[cactus_kid]

OP just learned not all troops are stationed CONUS......

ROFL.

Dude, as a duce Nam vet, I'm more than aware of that.

 

[NotagainV2]

Dude, as a duce Nam vet, I'm more than aware of that.

I was in Fallujah Iraq before I was legal to drink. Ive done 6 rotations total.

Thank you for your service too.

 

[ice445]

With you on the first part. Strongly disagree with the second. The F35 and SLS programs immediately spring to mind.

The F35 is IMO a necessary evil, even though the program went way too wide, trying to check every possible box. Sure, it's not that much better than the aircraft that it's replacing, and it had many teething problems, but all of its predecessors have aged airframes and avionics systems (F22 excluded). Can't keep using them and upgrading them forever. Of course, with unmanned planes around the corner, it also seems like too much, too late. But it's still a neat plane with pretty good capabilities, especially with the hardpoints equipped. The air force base here has a squadron of them, and they're always training and dicking around. They can sure pull a 90 degree climb and loop pretty quick, that was a treat to see while I was just minding my business at work.

Not negating your point though, the program was extremely wasteful, and each plane is still absurdly expensive. I'm gonna disagree on the SLS though, IMO any money sent to space is money well spent. I'm hoping for a mars colony in my lifetime, even if it doesn't "do" anything useful. But sometimes doing something just to do it is worthwhile. Dicking around space is one of those things for me. And who knows, in the future space tourism may be a big industry.

 

[ice445]

The SLS isn't money spent on space though. It's money spent on the promise of a rocket that has yet to see a single launch. Meanwhile, SpaceX is repeatedly sending payloads AND astronauts into orbit. NASA even awarded them the moon contract.

The F35 might have morphed from one plane to three, and gone wildly out of the "high low" scope, but as you said, the program has at least resulted in an aircraft(s). The SLS program has gone outside of scope and budget, with exactly nothing to show for it. Except maybe some very happy Boeing executives. At this point it looks like a poster child for the sunk cost fallacy.

Someone needs to say enough is enough. They've spent $20 billion to get to a single (scheduled) launch. At the risk of sounding like a broken record, I'll mention SpaceX one last time. Their price for a commercial launch is $62 million. That $20 billion could have put 322 payloads into orbit. Instead it will (maybe) have been used to launch one. Icing on the cake, each subsequent launch is estimated to cost an additional $2 billion. At a rate of 1/year.

...rant over

I want to see more spaceflight in my lifetime as well. NASA should put their money toward research and projects. Ironically, it turns out they're terrible rocket scientists (or just really bad at accounting). They're incredibly good and designing and running experiments in space. They make satellites and probes and rovers that almost universally massively over deliver. I'd love to see more of that.

SLS is a big peepee tho. IF they can get it to hit its intended performance targets, then it will be pretty much required for manned missions to the moon, and later mars. So yeah, it's been a shitty investment so far, but it still pales in cost to the shuttle program as a whole. The shuttle at least became instrumental in the work it was able to perform, so maybe the SLS can redeem itself. I know SpaceX has been doing great with commercial launches, and their reusable rocket seems very promising, but I don't know if they have anything capable of matching the theoretical performance outcome, at least not yet. I could be misinformed though.

Would be cool if NASA could just like, rebuild the Saturn V. But it exists in one of those weird paradoxes where all of the components used to build it are NLA and would have to be redesigned from scratch on modern processes and with modern materials. Kinda like how the B2 bomber is running into issues with certain parts needing to be reverse engineered because they ran out of spares, and the engineers and blueprints for the first go around are long gone now.

 

[ice445]

SLS - 154k lbs. payload
Falcon Heavy - 140k lbs. payload

17 Falcon heavy launches ($2 billion worth based on the $117 million NASA paid for one FH launch) - 2.3 million lbs. payload.

The Super Heavy/Starship is even bigger. I'd bet good money it launches long before the SLS cargo II, and for a fraction of the cost.

For reference, a Saturn V launch put up 310k lbs. for ~$1.2 billion (today's money).

Hmmm, I thought it was higher, or at least projected to be a lot higher later in the program. I won't dispute SpaceX is going to send more total tonnage into space for the same money, but going to the moon or other planets isn't something that those rockets are designed for, so I thought that was a factor in some of the excess costs? I'm not that plugged in to the nitty gritty of any of these programs, just a casual enthusiast who likes to watch launches. So you know more than I. I did enjoy the recent Dragon launch, went without a hitch.

Also, it's hilarious just how absurdly good the Saturn V was, from its capabilities to its launch record.

 

[ice445]

That's what Starship is for. If you want a big peepee launch system, here you go:

A 120 meter tall peepee would be pretty impressive. The SLS Block 2 must have been what figures I was thinking of. I guess we'll see who burns some oxygen first

Also, speaking of the Long March 9, have you heard about how the core stage entered orbit along with the rest of the important bits, and is now tumbling out of control, ready to de-orbit pretty much anywhere it wants? Great work, really. 21 tons of rice ready to annihilate whatever it chooses. Not that I'm really hating on China too much, I'm glad to see another major power have some success with their space program. The more competition, the better. But that's a pretty amateur mistake. I suppose all the major powers have done it at one point or another, but how did they not learn from us?

 

[Gregs24]

Also, it's hilarious just how absurdly good the Saturn V was, from its capabilities to its launch record.

Especially if you consider when it happened and what else was around at the time. Certainly a notch up on the Corvair !

 

[NoVaGT]

'da fuq did this thread start with a Mustang that may or may not be shipped over-seas, completely derail to friggin' space ships 4 pages later?

 

[Gregs24]

'da fuq did this thread start with a Mustang that may or may not be shipped over-seas, completely derail to friggin' space ships 4 pages later?

It took 4 pages - that is pretty good going

 

[m3incorp]

Have to love this forum for its ability to get derailed fast.

 

[Gregs24]

You're welcome

Hey - don't you go thinking you are the king of derailing !

Now - Eskimos, what are your views on them ?

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