Will earlier Gen Coyote block work with Gen 3 heads ?

[olaosunt]

So I actually looked into this earlier this year.

I’m positive the correct head gasket will allow them to work.

the cam position sensors are relocated also.
Base circle is changed with the 2018 also. And as you have stated the knock sensors are in a different spot with the direct injection.

also you would have to have a block off place made for the direct injection pump. As well as plugs made for the injectors. They could be welded in or just keep the stock injectors in held in place.

they would flow better than the gen 2 but it ended up not being worth the hassle for me.

Billet pro shop now sells a kit to delete DI on the Gen 3 heads .
With the scarcity of Gen 2 heads - one side has been back ordered for ever with no ETA , does this make the Gen 3 heads an option in a 15-17 ?... we know you can use any short block from Gen 1-3 but the Gen 3 is the cheapest option .



if it is ,might be a game changer as the Gen 3 heads are plentiful and cheap . I am sure they flow close to GT 350 heads too and come with stiffer springs already .
The rocker arms are crazy expensive ($24) for some reason but you can sometimes get the heads used(with rocker arms ) .

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[olaosunt]

Here is an example of what’s available.

I don’t know how “easy” it would be to get OEM cam caps but the MMR ones are like $600 for a pair of Heads /$1300 installed . so not sure it’s worth it
Pair of brand new heads can be had for $1300.
https://www.ebay.com/i/164249650799...01ad3b01750a16d98f37605ff810012&ul_noapp=true

 

[gimmie11s]

Here is an example of what’s available.

I don’t know how “easy” it would be to get OEM cam caps but the MMR ones are like $600 for a pair of Heads /$1300 installed . so not sure it’s worth it
Pair of brand new heads can be had for $1300.
https://www.ebay.com/i/164249650799?ul_ref=https%3A%2F%2Frover.ebay.com%2Frover%2F2%2Fe112358.m43.l1123%2F8%3Fbu%3D43103641826%26segname%3D16TE1798421_T_GENERIC_CT1%26crd%3D20201030090000%26mpre%3Dhttps%253A%252F%252Fwww.ebay.com%252Fulk%252Fi%252F164249650799%26ch%3Dosgood%26url%3Dhttps%253A%252F%252Fwww.ebay.com%252Fulk%252Fi%252F164249650799%26osub%3D7c94d20a37d74ffdbea82069590f71c2%257ETE1798421_T_GENERIC_CT1%26sojTags%3Demid%253Dbu%252Cut%253Dut%252Csegname%253Dsegname%252Ccrd%253Dcrd%252Curl%253Durl%252Cch%253Dch%252Cosub%253Dosub%26srcrot%3De112358.m43.l1123%26rvr_id%3D0%26rvr_ts%3Dd01ad3b01750a16d98f37605ff810012&ul_noapp=true

Yep.. i ended up buying new heads for my build and got both of them for $1300 through Summit actually.

 

[olaosunt]

Yep.. i ended up buying new heads for my build and got both of them for $1300 through Summit actually.

nice .
are you doing anything to them ?
springs /valves ?
Do you think the heads will work in 15-17 if you delete the DI ?

 

[bauern]

Do you think the heads will work in 15-17 if you delete the DI ?

They might if you lock the cams.

 

[olaosunt]

They might if you lock the cams.

Is that because the exhaust cam ?

 

[olaosunt]

GT 350 heads have even bigger valves and they will work on the Gen 2 block .The valves will be shrouded and Ford racing says PTV clearance could be an issue.

The valve shrouding would not be an issue for me since the Gen 2 short blocks I have in mind are 5.2’s anyway.
Gen 1 voodoo block and sleeved Gen 2 (coyote) 5.2 .
I don’t want to be the guinea pig and I don’t have to build ANOTHER long block but with the scarcity of Gen 2 heads I was just wondering if it was an option if I did .

I have damaged GT 350 heads for each of these blocks . I think one can be fixed as only has broken cam caps but the other one looked unrepairable due to badly scored cam journals .

 

[olaosunt]

Both blocks I have in mind actually have 3.7 bore /Gen 3 coyote pistons so the PTV clearance would not be an issue .

 

[olaosunt]

I am assuming that the Gen 3 heads would have the same PTV issues Ford racing talks about with GT 350 heads .
Of course they also say they will NOT work 15-17 blocks . I was just wondering if the experts can school me why , if the DI is no longer an issue.

if the Gen 2 heads were available my first choice would be to use the damaged voodoo heads as “cores”(I doubt they will check as long as they 4 valve heads /they visually look the same ) and get $500 of each set .

lol

 

[olaosunt]

If you could get gen 2 cam profiles it might work without new pistons.

And if you used Gen 3 cams you would have to use the Gen 3 chain drive and phasers (only the exhaust is different )
BLUF ... too complicated so I will pass . lol

Still no ETA on Gen 2 heads though.

 

[bauern]

Is that because the exhaust cam ?

Yes and the reluctor wheel at the back of both I & E cams is different from Gen2 so I imagine that the signal is different as well.

 

[olaosunt]

Thanks
i Had seen the first one (the pair )
My engine builder says it’s always a gamble buying used heads .... and no pics of of the cam journals

 

[olaosunt]

No rush really so I will wait a bit to see if new heads became available from Ford .
if I use the badly damaged voodoo heads as “core “ it would be about $400 per side .

 

[olaosunt]

Well , my local dealer just got in the Gen 2 heads I asked them to order so looks like they are iff back order .

I just need to get them now to match on line prices which is as low as $386 and I am golden . Lol

 

[olaosunt]

Damn those are cheap. Good luck getting them to match. I have a feeling you have a pretty healthy relationship with them.

LoL .
I do ... or I did . Since I can’t turn a wrench their service department have done most if all my work until recently .
was not too bad mmmm when they charged me a “performance “ rate of $65/hour ...but some management guy decided they needed more .
I think I kept them open during the first COVID shut down ... but the last straw was a $3K bill to install an aftermarket oil cooler on my Hellion car .

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