Why the Mach1 is a rip off

[spedy7]

I originally thought the Mach 1 idea was cool, get everything available on a GT (minus B&O) in one package. Now I just think - "why." Why not make the Tremec standard? A trans refresh is pretty overdue IMO. Why not make the Mach 1 its own package(s) and maybe continue the GT350?

The only other thing that bugs me a lot is the pricing. Special cars like this are something I would love to own and drive (hard) before electric becomes the only power source...and before I become too old to enjoy them at their full potential. Looks like that's not going to happen though.

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[sakman84]

I knew this thread would get lively and it sure did.

Mustang prices have been rising quickly over the S550 years. I did a lot of price analysis one day; a well equipped 2018 Mustang is 26.75% more expensive than a comparably equipped 2014 S197! I'd also say the car has gotten better with the pricing increases, but there comes a point, and each individual has to make this calculation, is it worth the money to YOU? To me the car has become increasingly expensive and the value gains have gotten less and less. Diminishing returns here have hit my personal point where I'm hesitating, 56K (my build, lack of color options is a deal breaker for now) is an expensive Mustang were very close to GT350 territory here and that is a special car for a lot of reasons. I like the GT350 a lot, but as a daily driver and a few track days per year in crowded Socal I don't know.

I think the Mach 1 is over priced, but so are the PP1 and PP2 cars! With no diff cooler on the PP cars that was a joke, a complete farce. Anybody who tracks knows how important cooling is. I'm glad to see Mach 1 is taking cooling seriously, but yeah Ford is making you pay for it. The transmission is the other big issue, the Mach 1 unit is way better. I have had two MT-82s both in S197s, one was great, the other is not good. Its a tough ask for me to get in to a S550 with that MT-820-D4 or not. Plus the longer revised gear ratios took some fun out of the car, biggest reason why I didn't buy an S550, lack of cooling and that trans. I'm curious how the ratios will feel in the Mach 1.

As for the Camaro, I have driven a few and I will say I'm absolutely positive I could run a faster lap in it and its cheaper. But the visibility is abysmal, and I prefer the feel of the Coyote engine. The Mustang is just a lot more livable for daily use and is more fun on the street. Through the production run GM did a better job of packaging performance parts and kept the cost comparatively low, SS 1LE I'm looking at you. They made some questionable choices on looks, inside and out but I get why people like them, if they fixed the visibility they might have hooked me for an SS 1LE but they didn't.

All cars these days are overpriced, the average monthly payment on US auto loans just crested $500 a month right...?

 

[garagelogic]

yes I can see that. The point of this tread is to bitch about Ford's pricing of their 5yr late attempt to match the SS/1LE though. So platitudes like "people want a well-rounded car" are not germain. The "Mach1 is a good value" thread is where that kind of logic carries any weight.

Why do you think the Mach1 is an “answer” to the SS 1LE? I doubt the SS 1LE was even taken into consideration when this car was put together.

 

[garagelogic]

I fully anticipate the Mach1 will take the same massive nose dive in prices offered just like the Bullitt did.

I disagree for multiple reasons. I guess time will tell who’s right.

 

[shogun32]

"half-assed"
translation: made a car to specifications differently than i would have had anyone cared about my opinions.....which they don't

not quite. The PP2 and the GT350 without the requisite coolers (looking at you MY16) are well known to go into limp mode. That's what you call half-ass'ing a supposed "intended for track use" car. GM equipped their car with all the necessary bits out of the gate.

 

[jake_zx2]

pics of helmet? How big is your head?

Large helmet, made by Racequip. Don’t have pics, but you can find them on Google. Doesn’t fit through the window of a Camaro (nor do MOST full face helmets)

PP2 did not answer the 1LE with its diff and trans coolers...

You should probably reread what I wrote. The PP2 absolutely was an answer to the 1LE, and was actually faster than it, but fell short in trackability due to diff cooling issues

Clearly you have never changed the diff oil on your car from cooking it. It smells like satan death new, burnt satan death when overheated... I bought a pallet of 3 diffs for $800 from junkyard in Coleman just to avoid futzing with cooked diffs. I'm sure someone can confirm the wretch inducing odor...

You... you do know you could’ve just bought a fuckin diff cooler for the same price, right?

Jesus, you’re just a walking Buyer’s Remorse, huh?

take @jake_zx2 with you?

No need, driven plenty of 6G camaros, both standard and 1LE. Still want a Mach 1

 

[jake_zx2]

GM equipped their car with all the necessary bits out of the gate.

Ah yes, GM’s “Ice mode” is purely track-bred and absolutely flawless, huh?

 

[shogun32]

Why do you think the Mach1 is an “answer” to the SS 1LE? I doubt the SS 1LE was even taken into consideration when this car was put together.

you'd have to deaf, blind and stupid to not look at the competitive marketplace of 2-seater cars in the ~$50,000 with V8 and NOT include the SS/1LE in your feature comparison. The PP2 was missing all the important track-friendly bits. The Camaro had them all. Do you really think Ford product planning tatoos Ford on their forehead and take a loyalty oath that Ford can do no wrong? Maybe you people who buy Mustangs think you're joining a cult, but some of us can be a little more objective and still remain owners.

So how is it such a leap that Ford went down the list of features it did not include on the PP2 but the Camaro had and checked off every single one? Do you really think Ford woke up one day with the idea, hey it's time to milk the Mustang faithful and offer a Boss/Mach nameplate - what shall we put on it? And NOBODY in the whiteboard session raised their hand and passed around the SS/1LE spec sheet?

Big brakes - check, but we won't do it.
Tremec for track cred - done
trans cooler - we already know from 2016 GT350 fuckup we need it, plus it's already there
diff cooler - we already know from 2016 GT350 fuckup we need it, plus we already have it
snazzy new nose - check
Shaker hood - let the Mopar rabble have that one

Yes I'm certain someone also raised their hand and pointed out "hey, the SS/1LE is only 47 grand, aren't we pricing the car too high?" And I'm sure after much internal debate they concluded "no need to worry, our surveys tell us they'll buy anything we label a 'special/limited' edition and we'll make bank on every one".

 

[jake_zx2]

Man, of course you’re one of the clowns that think Ford “fucked up” with the early GT350s

 

[Dominant1]

Stangmode is a moron. I wouldn't want any car he touched, he f'd up every mustang he's ever had, why would the mach 1 be any different.

to resell it for $55k and bank a total of $85k for the cost of a t-shirt, that’s why.

 

[garagelogic]

not quite. The PP2 and the GT350 without the requisite coolers (looking at you MY16) are well known to go into limp mode. That's what you call half-ass'ing a supposed "intended for track use" car. GM equipped their car with all the necessary bits out of the gate.

This is true and kudos to them for doing it. Too bad very few people found the package to be desirable enough to buy it. Reminds me of the old Beta vs VHS days. BETA was the far better choice, but in the end, VHS won the battle.

 

[garagelogic]

you'd have to deaf, blind and stupid to not look at the competitive marketplace of 2-seater cars in the ~$50,000 with V8 and NOT include the SS/1LE in your feature comparison. The PP2 was missing all the important track-friendly bits. The Camaro had them all. Do you really think Ford product planning tatoos Ford on their forehead and take a loyalty oath that Ford can do no wrong? Maybe you people who buy Mustangs think you're joining a cult, but some of us can be a little more objective and still remain owners.

So how is it such a leap that Ford went down the list of features it did not include on the PP2 but the Camaro had and checked off every single one? Do you really think Ford woke up one day with the idea, hey it's time to milk the Mustang faithful and offer a Boss/Mach nameplate - what shall we put on it? And NOBODY in the whiteboard session raised their hand and passed around the SS/1LE spec sheet?

Big brakes - check, but we won't do it.
Tremec for track cred - done
trans cooler - we already know from 2016 GT350 fuckup we need it, plus it's already there
diff cooler - we already know from 2016 GT350 fuckup we need it, plus we already have it
snazzy new nose - check
Shaker hood - let the Mopar rabble have that one

Yes I'm certain someone also raised their hand and pointed out "hey, the SS/1LE is only 47 grand, aren't we pricing the car too high?" And I'm sure after much internal debate they concluded "no need to worry, our surveys till us they'll buy anything we label a 'special/limited' edition and we'll make bank on every one".

You keep swinging and missing with me, chief. You’ll be hard pressed to call be brand-loyal and non-objective when looking at vehicles I might buy.

Given my decades of business experience, I can tell you it is highly unlikely that Ford benchmarked, by your own admission, a SS w/1LE package that has been available for 5 model years. What would be the point? Steal sales from GM? They don’t need a Mach 1 trim to do that.

As it has been stated, the Mach 1 is a bridge between the GT and the GT500, and that is precisely where it falls price and performance-wise. If anyone is looking to get the most track-bang for the buck, they should not be looking to buy one.

 

[Carzzi]

The Camaro will soon enter the trash heap of History.

Camaro=Communism!!!

 

[Fishtales]

stupid car buyers choose on external looks and brand ideology/identity and cabin glass instead of buying for technical excellence at significant price discount.

Marketing at GM still can't figure out why people buy the clearly inferior/overpriced Mustang and Dodge over the tour-de-force that is the Camaro.

I bought both. within mere months of each other. I bought the Mustang first because of 'looks' to be honest and because it was cheap and I fully intended to mod the suspension. Plus the incessant harping on this forum about visibility etc. Then I actually mustered the nerve to try the Camaro and realized, WTF did I buy a Mustang for? But the Mustang now with $2000+ worth of suspension and various fixes ($36+3=39k) is close enough to the Camaro ($38.5k) that I'm willing to keep both. And why not, I get to drive them both back to back and enjoy their quirks. If I wanted a third sedan I'd buy a Stinger or WideBody Challenger with Tremec in a heartbeat. But at some point how many cars can 1 person drive and campaign on a track, and also ride motorcycles?

GM vehicles historically have ben lemons. Maybe a Camaro is a better value, maybe not. But value is in the eye of the beholder and the sales of the two vehicles says a lot. The marketing at GM are fools if they don't know. A chiseler buys on price only.

 

[GreenS550]

People that hate the mach one can say what they want, but Ford has continually made the Mustang since 64 and a half. That's not true for the Challenger or the Camaro. General Motors and Chrysler both went bankrupt. Ford did not.

In fact when the Obama administration flew the leadership of Ford motor company to Washington to talk about a bailout,Ford executives realize they'd be selling their soul to the government and they told them no thanks. Yes the stock went down to $1.05 a share, but they survived. Ford were not able to change their Union covenants and contracts whereas GM and Chrysler did making it more expensive for Ford to build automobiles than the other two.

Yes perhaps I'm a fool, but Ford is an American company, one of the few that still exist without sucking off mother government.

I predicted during the bailout as a financial person that it would be a certain number of years that general Motors would go bankrupt again, and I believe this to be true. It is because they do whatever they want without looking at the marketing needs of the individual. Many of their vehicles now have some of the lowest reliability on Earth.

Yes, I will always be biased toward buying a Ford product. Some of it rational, some of it emotional. But I will never ever own a general Motors product. Back when they were bailed out I calculated that over $1,000 of my Federal Income tax went to General Motors because with those were my big income years. I was forced to pay for something I would never buy. And to this day General Motors has never repaid all of the money they were given from the government.

All that money and last year's sales of the Camaro were less than half of the Mustang. Yes the Camaro will end up on the trash heap because they didn't give a crap about driver positioning they just did what they wanted and they had so much money that they kept changing the car over and over and never getting it Right. I'd buy a Tesla over a Camaro in two seconds flat.

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