Whiteline swaybars any good?

[Wolverine]

CAMC autocross car, and daily driver. I should have probably started with swaybars, before doing everything else in the suspension, but I work backwards sometimes and so here we are. Looking to finish off my suspension with some swaybars and honestly the Whiteline BFK006 Kit, which includes front (35mm) and rear (25mm) bars PLUS adjustable endlinks for around $460 is a more economical solution than most. (If you haven’t seen how expensive endlinks are, beware they can cost as much as a whole swaybar).

The 35/25 bars keep the BALANCE of swaybars very close to the 32/22.2 of the stock GTPP. This is important, and the reason I’m hesitant on Steeda’s rear bar which is 28.6mm (1-1/8”).

Current suspension:

Steeda Camber Plates
Steeda Pro-Action Adjustable Struts & Shocks
Steeda Dual-Rate HPDE Springs (350/1200 rates)
Steeda Polyeurethane Bump Stops
Steeda Billet Rear Shock Mounts
Steeda Billet Poly Vertical Links
Steeda Billet Camber Arms
Steeda Rear Toe Links
Steeda Front Lateral Links
Steeda Front Tension Link Bearings
Steeda Rear Lower Control Arm Bearings
Steeda Poly Differential Bushings
Steeda Delrin Alignment Dowels
BMR CB005 Cradle Lockout

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[Nagare]

With all that Steeda, I think you trust their products already and their package with end links lists at $650 (plus either discount codes or holiday sale coming up!). Keep in mind their front bar also has 4 adjustability settings so you could better balance out the slightly larger rear bar.

Haven't seen much either way for the Whiteline kit so can't say, I have liked my Steeda bars though!

 

[Wolverine]

@Nagare You are correct I have mostly Steeda’s parts now... not because I didn’t consider other manufacturers products, but because for what I was looking for Steeda had the best parts. That’s the way I approach things. Ignore the names, colors, marketing, and look at the engineering of the components and choose the best one for the price, that simple.

As for the sways, I KNOW the Steeda bars are better built and have significantly more R&D and testing time performed on them. They probably also sell about 100 times the amount of Mustang swaybars as Whiteline. At the end of the day, I’m just looking to get a full set of front and rear bars that are close in front/rear balance to the OEM PP bars, plus mounts AND adjustable endlinks. To do this with Steeda is nearly $1,000. The Whiteline kit is under $500.

 

[NightmareMoon]

I have the DRs, similar shocks and a bunch of the other stuff on your list. I’m just starting out in CAMC so still lots of dialing things in, but so far I’m not sure if I’d go that stiff on the rear swaybar either.

Im on a BMR 35mm front and a 22.2 *solid Strano rear bar, both on medium, and honestly I might soften up the rear setting a bit. The DRs are balanced better than the stock springs, and I’m not finding the rear needs as much swaybar as it did with the stock suspension to control body roll. YMMV

 

[Wolverine]

I ran in FS for a single event last fall, and switched to CAMC (Novice indexed class) where I ran for all of 2018. First half of the season I was woefully under-prepped but with the Steeda parts mentioned in my first post here and some RE71Rs I finished strong. The balance of the car is pretty good right now, which is why I'm hesitant to slap on a SINGLE larger swaybar at either end, or a PAIR of swaybars where the size ratio front to rear is dramatically different than stock.

My guess is the solid 22.2mm Strano (made by Hellwig, can you confirm?) is fairly close to a 24-25mm hollow rear bar, pending wall thickness of course.

 

[Nagare]

@Nagare You are correct I have mostly Steeda’s parts now... not because I didn’t consider other manufacturers products, but because for what I was looking for Steeda had the best parts. That’s the way I approach things. Ignore the names, colors, marketing, and look at the engineering of the components and choose the best one for the price, that simple.

I'm not really arguing that part, I said I haven't seen much either way for Whiteline and the 4 points for the front could help to better balance out the larger rear bar. The Dual Rate springs do a lot to balance the car out, but maybe add the front bar on the softest setting and combine the Whiteline or even a GT350/R bar for the rear? You don't get the adjustability with the GT350 bars, but they're definitely a bit stronger than what you currently have and should come in for the value aspect.

 

[Norm Peterson]

@NagareAt the end of the day, I’m just looking to get a full set of front and rear bars that are close in front/rear balance to the OEM PP bars

How close to PP balance are your dual-rate springs? And are/were you happy with the PP's inherent balance back when it was bone stock? The answers to both of those questions should go into your bar decisions.

Your best bet here is to just drive the car as it currently sits and let it tell you where you need to take it from there - if you need to take it any further at all. Test, don't guess.


But just so you know, Vorshlag has been big on the Whiteline stuff for a number of years now.


Norm

 

[Nagare]

Norm is a good guy to listen to based on his experience and all of the research he reads/does. In case it makes it easier, GTPP springs are 165 front/728 rear and the Steeda DR springs go from 220/800 to 350/1200. If it is just easy ratios (I know it never is), GTPP is .226 and DR go from .275 to .292 so the larger Steeda rear bar could bring the balance back closer (Norm please correct if I'm off base, I could be stating that wrong).

 

[NightmareMoon]

IIRC the Strano rear bar is supposed to adjust from near-stock PP up to the 25mm hollow bars. Sam thought all the hollow 25mm bars were overkill for an FS car and induced too much oversteer when paired with the stock front bar.

IDK who actually manufactures it.

 

[Norm Peterson]

Norm is a good guy to listen to based on his experience and all of the research he reads/does. In case it makes it easier, GTPP springs are 165 front/728 rear and the Steeda DR springs go from 220/800 to 350/1200. If it is just easy ratios (I know it never is), GTPP is .226 and DR go from .275 to .292 so the larger Steeda rear bar could bring the balance back closer (Norm please correct if I'm off base, I could be stating that wrong).

The simple answer is that as you bias the springs more toward the rear, you bias the bars more toward the front - if you're happy enough with the car's initial handling balance.

But it does get a bit more complicated, in that the roll center heights generally don't drop by similar amounts, which shifts handling balance (and transitional behavior) separately from the changes in spring rates.

There's still the matter of whether any given driver really is happy with either the initial handling balance or where it ends up after the new springs are installed. This is where the subjectives - driver preferences - enter the picture. And where easy adjustability (shocks & struts as well as bars) shows its advantage.


Norm

 

[Wolverine]

1. @NightmareMoon What wheel and tire have you been using in autocross, if you haven’t been in CAMC up to this point? Remember the grip of 305/30R19 RE71Rs squared are a substantial step up from even RE71Rs in near stock sizes.

In my recent discussion with Sam, he recommended a 35/25 setup. The Steeda set is 35/28 and he thought the rear was far too big. I guess what it will come down to is testing on my part. That’s what TnT days are for right?? Lol

2. @Nagare I have looked into the GT350/R sways, and they’re a fine value proposition but I need adjustability at both ends. Especially going from high-grip concrete to sealed asphalt for different events, it would be good to have that ability.

Thank you for outlining the numbers and comparing balance front/rear of the stock springs to the DR springs.

3. @Norm Peterson I wish I could give a confident solid answer to your question of how I liked the balance of the car stock, but to be quite frank I don’t have much time in the car in a stock configuration. That said, I didn’t notice a DRAMATIC difference in balance (front to rear) after the DR springs and better shocks. More composure all around obviously, and although I was very worried the spring rates would be too high when I bought them, I now realize they could be much much higher yet. John/Dennis are 650-700 front and 1400-1800 rear rates on their coilovers.

I’m happy with the way the car handles right now, from a balance standpoint. I finished 2018 near the top of my class indexed against some quick competition, so it can’t be all that bad.

I LOVE the engineering behind this, learning and calculating what the changes will do to the car. I think I might try drilling the extra hole in the stock front bar in the off season and seeing what difference that makes, if for no other reason than an extra data point for my research.

 

[NightmareMoon]

Yup Im only beginning to tip toe into CAMC and dont any any time on 305s yet. I finally just got 11” wheels last wednesday, so ya take everything I say with a grain of salt. My experience of the handling balance thus far is mainly on a small test track on 285 MP4S tires over 19x10” wheels and the Steeda DRs.

Heres hoping the 305 RE71Rs will be a noticeable step up, ‘cause thats what my next set will be after I thoroughly trash whats left of my current 285 RE71s

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