Whipple car runs bad - tune issues

[dubster99]

Thanks for the reply. Was hoping you'd say it was easier. I'm doing the 3.31 swap very soon. For the same reason you did, no 5th gear at the 1/4 mile.
Again I had the same issues with my Whipple setup. I have HPTuners so I'm able to adjust the Whipple tune. I found that the car was starving for fuel under light load part throttle boost. Basically the car needs more fuel in that area.

I'm just swapping the whole pumpkin.

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[superman07]

If your not into PE until 90 percent, and WOT goes into Open loop what's the point of the PE function really in this tune? Delaying my install until this is sorted.

 

[TX-Ripper]

If your not into PE until 90 percent, and WOT goes into Open loop what's the point of the PE function really in this tune? Delaying my install until this is sorted.

Are you assuming you will have the same problem?

 

[keltymd]

Are you assuming you will have the same problem?

I hate to say it but I would. I think the issue would be resolved if they would but a one way controlled check valve in line of the bypass vacuum line. Have it set to hold vacuum on the line until 90% throttle has been met that way there is no boost until you are near full throttle and the tune can add fuel. Really unless you are near full throttle do you want boost anyway? This would also be nice and a good add on for the boost by gear feature.

 

[superman07]

I want to better understand the drivability of the whipple canned tunes. Due to the "legal" or other constraints they have placed on themselves I may not run their tune and just wait a few weeks and go straight to e85 with fuel / injector upgrades and call Ken at PBD. I don't want to dork with the DW injectors and have drivability issues this spring dealing with an issue that now seems to be more common than though previously.

 

[TX-Ripper]

I want to better understand the drivability of the whipple canned tunes. Due to the "legal" or other constraints they have placed on themselves I may not run their tune and just wait a few weeks and go straight to e85 with fuel / injector upgrades and call Ken at PBD. I don't want to dork with the DW injectors and have drivability issues this spring dealing with an issue that now seems to be more common than though previously.

You cant go wrong with a PBD tune.

 

[markmurfie]

What ever this surging problem is, I can almost certainly say it is not lambda related. Not what is commanded and when in the tune.

14.0 is stoich(slightly rich) not lean. Unless your lambdas are bouncing rapidly stoich/rich/stoich/lean you will not feel power coming in and out to any degree. If they are its not the tune that is commanding that. The only thing running stoich will do in boost is generate lots of heat, which I found does happen if you are running around aggressively at partial throttle. Once things are too hot fuel will enrichen to cool the cats/ exhaust, once cool it will go back to stoich. This happens over a relatively long time period and you should not even feel it. If boost and stoich casued and issue ever factory super charger/ turbo charged car would not be sold as they would be known to have surging issues. That is not the case.

At WOT your are in "open loop" as a relic term of when cars had narrow band O2 sensors. The widebands are still used in correcting fuel just to the lambda value in the WOT table instead of stoich.

 

[Racerbox77]

Its federally illegal to have PE come in before 90% unless cat safety is in jeopardy.

And here is our problem. Damn government! Lol

 

[TX-Ripper]

What ever this surging problem is, I can almost certainly say it is not lambda related. Not what is commanded and when in the tune.

14.0 is stoich(slightly rich) not lean. Unless your lambdas are bouncing rapidly stoich/rich/stoich/lean you will not feel power coming in and out to any degree. If they are its not the tune that is commanding that. The only thing running stoich will do in boost is generate lots of heat, which I found does happen if you are running around aggressively at partial throttle. Once things are too hot fuel will enrichen to cool the cats/ exhaust, once cool it will go back to stoich. This happens over a relatively long time period and you should not even feel it. If boost and stoich casued and issue ever factory super charger/ turbo charged car would not be sold as they would be known to have surging issues. That is not the case.

At WOT your are in "open loop" as a relic term of when cars had narrow band O2 sensors. The widebands are still used in correcting fuel just to the lambda value in the WOT table instead of stoich.

Sooooo your trying to tell him, it’s more then likely a mechanical problem and not so much tune related?

 

[superman07]

Interesting and I value your input as I see your posts across items here and at HP Tuners, but I was under the understanding most tuners did not trust the widebands to react fast enough.

 

[Racerbox77]

I hate to say it but I would. I think the issue would be resolved if they would but a one way controlled check valve in line of the bypass vacuum line. Have it set to hold vacuum on the line until 90% throttle has been met that way there is no boost until you are near full throttle and the tune can add fuel. Really unless you are near full throttle do you want boost anyway? This would also be nice and a good add on for the boost by gear feature.

This would make the car feel like an NA car with NOS. No thanks I like feeling power without having to floor it.

 

[superman07]

telling the tune what Lambda you want when is probably the easy part. Dealing with the transient and transition areas looks complicated.

 

[Racerbox77]

Its federally illegal to have PE come in before 90% unless cat safety is in jeopardy.

Are you sure about that? I have a Roush factory tune file that shows PE coming in much lower than 90% pedal.

 

[Whipple SC]

If your not into PE until 90 percent, and WOT goes into Open loop what's the point of the PE function really in this tune? Delaying my install until this is sorted.

The Mustang is closed loop always. PE, which means it goes to its commanded air fuel vs stoich is 90% pedal. ALL OEM vehicles are this way. Cals are tested at all the load points in this area. Cam position is tied to this same value so the system goes from "economy" to "power" at 90%. Been the same from day one.

 

[Whipple SC]

Are you sure about that? I have a Roush factory tune file that shows PE coming in much lower than 90% pedal.

Am I sure about federal law? LOL, YES.

Roush's "factory" cal for the S550 does in fact have it at 90%.

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