What will be the next Bone FORD throws us?

[Chameleon]

That would be extremely disappointing. This car not needs to beat the Boss but at least the current 1LE Camaro.

I think it will beat both.

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[Wildcat]

I'm guessing we won't get anymore partial info in specs. We will probably get all official info at the same time. Officially announced weight, aero, mpg, power and weight distribution

Agree. We probably have at least another month before we see any new info, and they will probably just spill all the details together. I don't see any more slow drips of info unless some person leaks it somewhere.

We'll probably have all we need to know early August, and then the auto rags will probably start getting hold of models in late August or September and give us an even fuller picture.

 

[scottpe]

I was under the impression the Weight issue was thoroughly settled?

I don't want yet another thread to turn into a weight debate, but let's just say there's still questions about what those weights consist of (i.e., how those cars are truly optioned). There's some really strange inconsistencies between them which do nothing but perpetuate doubts. For instance, how is the Automatic EcoBoost is 5lbs LIGHTER than the Manual? Makes no sense given the known weight difference between those two transmissions.

This leads me to believe that the models listed may be optioned differently in other ways besides transmission. Like perhaps the manual cars are actually fitted with the Performance Package? Anyway, there are various theories, but I think most of us agreed that the bottom line is, we're not going to know the whole truth until they hit the scales in a couple months. Until then, I for one am taking those numbers with a grain of salt, since we don't have any real context for them. They don't paint the whole picture...

 

[Free Agent]

I don't want yet another thread to turn into a weight debate, but let's just say there's still questions about what those weights consist of (i.e., how those cars are truly optioned). There's some really strange inconsistencies between them which do nothing but perpetuate doubts. For instance, how is the Automatic EcoBoost is 5lbs LIGHTER than the Manual? Makes no sense given the known weight difference between those two transmissions.

This leads me to believe that the different models listed may be optioned differently in other ways besides transmission. Like perhaps the manual cars are actually fitted with the Performance Package? Anyway, there are various theories, but I think most of us agreed that the bottom line is, we're not going to know the whole truth until they hit the scales in a couple months. Until then, I for one am taking those numbers with a grain of salt, since we don't have any real context for them. They don't paint the whole picture...

We will have to disagree on this one. The weights are out. The whole "approximate" thing is done by a lot of automakers. The weights seem to be set. Of course individual cars will differ. The last 2 pieces are HP/TQ and mileage and they are closely related. Lets just say hope the bone gets thrown sooner than later.

 

[Fox9350]

I voted for all 3 because I think all 3 will come out at once, since they're interrelated

 

[EXP Jawa]

For instance, how is the Automatic EcoBoost is 5lbs LIGHTER than the Manual? Makes no sense given the known weight difference between those two transmissions.

This could be simply explained (in part), depending on how Ford is using the iron versus aluminum versions of the axle carrier. I would totally expect Ford to elect to use the iron version in more severe-duty cases and the aluminum in lighter duty scenarios, based on my own experience in such matters. It is possible that the manual gets the iron carrier and the automatic does not, since there is the potential of much more severe driveline impact shock (for a drag start) with a clutch compared to a torque convertor. So it is certainly conceivable that the difference in transmission weight is (more than) offset by the difference in axle system weight. Without knowing the component weights in question, its tough to say. But I could buy into that reasoning...

 

[scottpe]

We will have to disagree on this one. The weights are out. The whole "approximate" thing is done by a lot of automakers. The weights seem to be set. Of course individual cars will differ. The last 2 pieces are HP/TQ and mileage and they are closely related. Lets just say hope the bone gets thrown sooner than later.

Don't get me wrong. I'm not doubting that the weights are "set." I'm just saying we don't have context for what the listed weights really mean. A base GT weighing 3700lbs has different implications than a Premium model or one that has the Performance Package (or both) weighing that much, for instance.

I'm just saying we won't have a true baseline for what the numbers mean until we see differently optioned models on the scales later.

 

[scottpe]

This could be simply explained (in part), depending on how Ford is using the iron versus aluminum versions of the axle carrier. I would totally expect Ford to elect to use the iron version in more severe-duty cases and the aluminum in lighter duty scenarios, based on my own experience in such matters. It is possible that the manual gets the iron carrier and the automatic does not, since there is the potential of much more severe driveline impact shock (for a drag start) with a clutch compared to a torque convertor. So it is certainly conceivable that the difference in transmission weight is (more than) offset by the difference in axle system weight. Without knowing the component weights in question, its tough to say. But I could buy into that reasoning...

I hear you, except that a Ford exec stated the exact OPPOSITE of your theory. He stated that the MANUAL transmission equipped cars get an aluminum diff... which would imply that they should even be that much lighter still (lighter tranny AND lighter diff).

Now could he have misspoken? Sure I suppose that's conceivable, but the bottom line is, we have no clear cut answer, only theories. Thus we are back to "we won't know until we know..." ;)

 

[EXP Jawa]

I know he did, and I've explained elsewhere where I believe that he had, in fact, misspoken. I am confident that manual transmission cars will get the iron axle, and likely the automatic 5.0L cars will also. Its really more a matter of how they choose to divvy up the aluminum ones in the light duty cars, in my opinion. But you're right, we won't have final answers on anything until cars show up at dealers...

 

[scottpe]

I know he did, and I've explained elsewhere where I believe that he had, in fact, misspoken. I am confident that manual transmission cars will get the iron axle, and likely the automatic 5.0L cars will also.

Without going back and looking, I believe your previous explanation was in support of the idea that the GT would get an iron carrier, which I agree makes some sense because of its power level. But the Ecoboost and/or V6 manual? I don't think it makes as much sense for those to get iron. But yet the weights of those two models and their respective transmission options are inexplicably close too (though in opposite directions for V6 Manual/Auto vs EB Manual/Auto).

Just for the sake of argument, let's go with your theory that the GT Auto and Manual will both get an iron rear. Okay, the Manual GT still is only listed as being 23lbs lighter than the Auto. That still leaves around 50lbs unaccounted for between the two. That's not an insignificant difference. There's obviously something going on there that we can't explain. We'll just have to wait and see what the answer is...

 

[EXP Jawa]

You're right, there's a lot we can't account for. The case of the GT is more extreme, obviously, than the V6 or EB, so there is more going on there than we've figured out. But if there are light & heavy duty versions of the axle, there could be similar situations elsewhere in the car. And, of course, we really still don't know how Ford will treat the 33% rule.

Regarding which model gets which carrier, it'll come down to what Ford found when they collected RLD, and what they determined the worst torque load considered acceptable is for the aluminum version. Then its just a matter of which side of the fence each version of the car is. It could be that all manuals get the iron, and all automatics are aluminum. Or all 5.0L cars are iron, everything else aluminum. But I think its likely it'll be some combination. Without knowing the load data, its hard to say.

Either way, we should probably get back on topic before we get smacked by the moderator...

 

[scottpe]

Either way, we should probably get back on topic before we get smacked by the moderator...

 

[scottpe]

I voted for all 3 because I think all 3 will come out at once, since they're interrelated

I suspect you are correct...

 

[EXP Jawa]

I suspect you are correct...

Same here...

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