What fuel do you use in your GT?

[WD Pro]

I think the fuel learning process can be speeded up by doing a KAM reset (for those with OBD service tools) or by disconnecting the battery for 20 mins or more

I've done it three times, but not purposely (battery disconnected for strut brace mods / strut brace fitment / making the airbags safe for seat removal).

The only pain in the arse is that the battery disconnection method erases the mymode settings - not sure if that happens using the OBD tool reset option ?

Ford provides this waning after a reset :

WD

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[Bullitt66]

Wait - so this car learns what fuel is in the tank?
How the heck does it do that?

I thought the ECU tune dictated such parameters, for example our friends across the pond have different software as they are on even lower octane. Of course once you remap that’s a different story.

with a stock factory tune, it can’t be expecting 97 premium - or they would all be pinking like crap when people fill up with 95…

E10 is a red herring here - it shouldn’t affect these cars as the plastic materials are already compliant.

Hinch -any thoughts? Please educate me!

 

[WD Pro]

America’s fuel numbers are different, but their premium is similar to our super even though the number on the pump suggests otherwise.

I believe (within maximum boundaries) Ford push the ignition to the point of knock and then pull it back a little.

Some of the values relating to this learning cycle (and other values) are stored in the KAM.

A KAM reset clears all the values and forces the car to relearn all the values that it did have stored.

I believe the default is to start shall we say ‘aggressive’ and then (if treated as such) it will quickly back off until it’s in a comfortable / safe zone.

This is why a car driven conservatively on standard fuel ‘could’ feel a little flat compared to one that’s given the good stuff and regularly allowed to work.

Timing is everything for these engines, especially the gen 3, that’s why the gen 3 responds particularly well to e85. I think e85 (with a dedicated tune) can allow up to an extra ten degrees of timing at the lower end ?

WD

 

[raptor17GT]

the US uses MON to rate their fuel which results in a lower number as it's a different scale from the RON we use here but their 93/94 is our 98 equivalent or slightly better in their favour i think. If we put our 95RON in the tank the ECU will pull ignition advance til it detects no more knock. I assume the reverse is also true when you then put in better fuel. Older 90's ECU's would retard the ignition for the crap fuels but wouldn't then advance it after better fuel was put in and thus required the ECU reset to be done (pull fuses usually)

 

[hinch]

Wait - so this car learns what fuel is in the tank?
How the heck does it do that?

I thought the ECU tune dictated such parameters, for example our friends across the pond have different software as they are on even lower octane. Of course once you remap that’s a different story.

with a stock factory tune, it can’t be expecting 97 premium - or they would all be pinking like crap when people fill up with 95…

E10 is a red herring here - it shouldn’t affect these cars as the plastic materials are already compliant.

Hinch -any thoughts? Please educate me!

haha so modern ecu's are basically really smart computers with loads of sensors hanging off of them. really doesn't matter what fuel you put in a stock tune as they're so detuned for reliability it adds and removes timing according to the fuel once it sees things like burn temp and exhaust temps etc.
there's some maths behind it that I wish I could remember right now but basically if you put 97 in after a few fills it'll work out it can keep the timing that little higher and won't pull as much timing, some even let you rev slightly higher the result is you gain 1-2 hp usually but importantly you get a cleaner burn.

Now in my case I'm locked to 97 or better because I've hard limited my min timing so the ecu can't pull enough timing out to compensate for crap fuel, i think the lowest my timing goes is like +27 where as 95 will probably be in the +11 region I guess (not 100%)

E10 won't make a blind bit of difference to any of our cars whats I'm more interested in is that E10 as in heading towards the yank E85 of is it a case of us using similar terminology but meaning something totally different. If its heading to E85 direction then new injectors and fuel filters will become a more common occurrence as E85 if left goes like jelly and clogs everything up it will also condense and leach water but that's easily resolved with marine style prefilters on the fuel lines to separate water from fuel.

 

[maddog1982]

Been using momentum last few tanks due to shell being stupidly expensive. However, my mpg is now 19 and change, always used to be about 22 on shell

 

[Ben_MAP]

doesn't matter what fuel you put in a stock tune as they're so detuned for reliability it adds and removes timing according to the fuel once it sees things like burn temp and exhaust temps etc

Pulls timing based on burn temp? Exhaust temps etc?

Generally, if your exhaust temps are too high you run richer to bring them back down - fuel acts as a cooling agent, octane rating is irrelevant.

Oh and FYI the S550 doesn't have exhaust gas temperature sensors ... EGT's are modeled.

there's some maths behind it that I wish I could remember right now

Maths? Lord give me strength!

The ECU uses knock sensors to monitor knock frequency and uses that information to determine whether it can run the timing requested, pull timing or add timing if an adder is active.
Lower octane fuels are less stable than higher octane fuels and burn faster, faster burn means you can't ignite it as early ...
Your ECU can be calibrated to run on 95 and add timing if it doesn't detect knock or calibrated run 99 and pull timing if it detects knock, or anywhere inbetween.

These are the most basic of concepts. I'm not going to dismantle the rest of your post though I do feel it needs it!

@hinch whenever you post this sort of jibberish it gets screenshotted and then appears in tuning forums for people to joke about. Every American DIYer is sat at home scratching his head wondering what 'they' are putting in our water.

Alas, a high post count is still no indication of knowledge and experience

 

[hinch]

Pulls timing based on burn temp? Exhaust temps etc?

Generally, if your exhaust temps are too high you run richer to bring them back down - fuel acts as a cooling agent, octane rating is irrelevant.

Oh and FYI the S550 doesn't have exhaust gas temperature sensors ... EGT's are modeled.



Maths? Lord give me strength!

The ECU uses knock sensors to monitor knock frequency and uses that information to determine whether it can run the timing requested, pull timing or add timing if an adder is active.
Lower octane fuels are less stable than higher octane fuels and burn faster, faster burn means you can't ignite it as early ...
Your ECU can be calibrated to run on 95 and add timing if it doesn't detect knock or calibrated run 99 and pull timing if it detects knock, or anywhere inbetween.

These are the most basic of concepts. I'm not going to dismantle the rest of your post though I do feel it needs it!

@hinch whenever you post this sort of jibberish it gets screenshotted and then appears in tuning forums for people to joke about. Every American DIYer is sat at home scratching his head wondering what 'they' are putting in our water.

Alas, a high post count is still no indication of knowledge and experience

these would be the same americans that looked at your data logs and laughed at them yeah ?
get off your shit horse and go run your "business" of 10000+ boosted mustangs you claim to have done.

 

[Ben_MAP]

these would be the same Americans that looked at your data logs and laughed at them yeah ?
get off your shit horse and go run your "business" of 10000+ boosted mustangs you claim to have done.

that would be 10,000+ invoices ...

And which ones would those be? Logs, company ... whichever. I'll ask them. Perhaps they are the same ones!

None of which detracts from the fact that your post is utter nonsense

 

[hinch]

that would be 10,000+ invoices ...

And which ones would those be? Logs, company ... whichever. I'll ask them. Perhaps they are the same ones!

None of which detracts from the fact that your post is utter nonsense

company was lund

you literally confirmed what i said was true apart from proving you don't undertstand how ecu's work thinking there's no maths involved.... erm ok then get back in your hole.

 

[Ben_MAP]

Excellent, I will message him.

There's plenty of maths involved in how ECU's work ... would you like to explain to me what maths the ECU uses to determine how much ignition timing to run based on EGT's?

 

[Twin Turbo]

I'm going to politely request your two put each other on ignore before we have to take action. Thank you.

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