We Have Officially Gone Insane!!!

Discussion in 'Off-Topic Lounge' started by Bikeman315, Apr 20, 2020.

  1. Bikeman315

    Bikeman315 Well-Known Member

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  2. Silver Bullitt

    Silver Bullitt Well-Known Member

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    From some pretty respected doctors, I think our approach to complete isolation is not the best approach here. I completely agree this is a bad bug, but to me, based on what I have read and heard, it makes more sense to help isolate the critically vulnerable, and let herd immunity do it's thing. We won't have a viable vaccine for probably at least two years. The toll on shutting down the economy is far more dangerous than letting this bug run it's course. I've studied both sides' arguments, and I just don't believe isolation is the best way to try and beat this. We have 40,000+ deaths so far. Even if it grows to 100,000, that's far less than many other types of death we just accept as society every year. And, how many of these deaths, particularly the people 80 years and older would have died from catching a cold?

    I lived 25 years with a daughter with a suppressed immune system. I know what it takes to protect people like her from bugs. They are so much more susceptible to things that aren't nearly as severe for the average healthy person. These people need special attention and care. But to put 22 million adults and growing out of work, who knows the physical and psychological impact this is having. We may not ever be able to measure the impact of what we are doing.

    And, some of these governors have gone way overboard. Like in Michigan, you can't even go to a second home or take a walk in a park. I love the comment by the one governor in that article, "These orders actually are the law of these states," he said. "To have an American president encourage people to violate the law, I can't remember any time during my time in America where we have seen such a thing." I guess that only pertains to "American citizens" not to illegal immigrants. This shutdown needs to end soon. It is doing far more damage than this bug could ever do.
     
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  3. samd1351

    samd1351 Well-Known Member

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    Yes, it appears as though some of us have gone insane. Why the hell would protest against those trying to help cure and take care of people? It's one thing to protest against the government, but against doctors, nurses and those cleaning the hospitals, that is just moronic.

    It is a sad state of affairs. "By god I want mine, whether or not it puts you at risk isn't my problem"
     
  4. lacanteen

    lacanteen Well-Known Member

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    People are starting to lose their shit with the over reach. In Michigan you can go to Walmart and buy beer and chips, but you can't buy a toddler car seat. Some entity in California dumped sand in a skateboard park to prevent skateboarders from exercising. There are examples like this all across the country. We can go to Lowe's but not the golf course.Common sense has left the building.
     
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  5. OP
    OP
    Bikeman315

    Bikeman315 Well-Known Member

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    You are so right but it's not just overreach. Governor McMaster is lifting the public beach access rules tomorrow along with some retail store reopenings. People are going nuts in both directions. My Nextdoor tread on this is a textbook lesson in human nature.

    Reminds me of this
    upload_2020-4-20_12-55-26.jpeg

    I just wish we had some stability in our Federal, State & local governments. They need to get on the same page and stop fighting each other. People see this and are now doing the same thing.
     
  6. Interceptor

    Interceptor Daily Driver

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    50% of people in America, feel it is best if we depend on the governments to hover over our affairs and protect us. They will give up so much if they feel protected.
    25% of the other 50% listen to the news and don't know what to believe, they hope the government's is helping. But see the overreaching powers taking place.

    Remember, " never let a crisis go to waste"

    The other 25 % are to the point of.... this is bull crap.

    This is my opinion and is based on no actual figures or facts.
     
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  7. Hack

    Hack Well-Known Member

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    There are so many false narratives put out there by people with agendas. That creates a lot of animosity. Most nurses here are furloughed and even the ICU nurses who would be caring for Covid patients (if there were enough of them) are losing shifts.

    In the beginning when we knew this was coming and we knew China was lying it made more sense to lock down, because we didn't know how bad it would be. Now we know a lot more about the disease and it is time to loosen up the restrictions.

    We know who is at risk. THOSE people should definitely shelter in place for a time. But the restrictions need to be loosened right away. Too many people who profit from the misfortune of others are busy with their agendas here.

    I agree. We need to strike a better balance. I'm sorry, but I believe reasonable people don't do things like the Russia Collusion hoax. If a high percentage of the population listen to and believe these false narratives it's no wonder there is anger. It's not ok to try to depose a duly elected president when there is no evidence.

    Those same people are doing the scare tactics now. They make money from fear. People need to start realizing most of it is fake drama and just tune out. I see the big business news media as a huge part of this problem. Too many people believe their lies.
     
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  8. Silver Bullitt

    Silver Bullitt Well-Known Member

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    The one "nurse" I saw was standing in the middle of the street blocking traffic. If it's that bad, why weren't they at work taking care of patients? Don't get me wrong, I have the utmost respect for doctors, nurses, and all medical support personnel, and God knows how much I've revered these people throughout a good part of my life. But, please take what is portrayed by the media with a grain of salt.

    And, until you know what specific circumstances a protester might be suffering as a result of some of these questionable decisions being made (ability to feed his family, make a mortgage or rent payment, or keep his utility services turned on), I wouldn't be so quick to judge.
     
  9. cosmo

    cosmo Well-Known Member

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    An R naught of 5.7 when no restrictions were in place in Wuhan: https://wwwnc.cdc.gov/eid/article/26/7/20-0282_article

    This implies that reduced restrictions would end up somewhere between the initial Ro of ~2.5 and this 5.7 figure. For reference, 5.7 is higher than the already highly infectious measles (around 4.5) and the black death (around 3.5).

    Plus, there's still debate on the body's effectiveness on fighting off the virus after initial exposure.

    Again, people distanced from epicenters think this is overblown. That's because the actions taken have reduced the spread. In Detroit, I can tell you, it is not overblown.

    If you want to argue about the cost to the economy, then you forfeit your pro life stance since abortions are cheaper than a person. Not to mention the morality issue with that stance about the economy.
     
  10. Hack

    Hack Well-Known Member

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    So you don't think there's a difference between deliberately ending a baby's life versus people dying from a disease?

    I think we need more freedom for people to choose what they want to do. I would never advocate that people should be forced to contract a disease. I am just advocating to give people the freedom to work if they want to work. If you have to twist someone's argument to try to make it sound bad, maybe you should reconsider your side of the issue?

    This is so similar to the global warming B.S. that goes on. Somehow the scientist's theory of 0.1 degree of warming in 10 years (or whatever those numbers actually are) translates into "we are all going to die in 12 years" and the V8 must be eliminated. If we burn gas we are evil. Now, people who want freedom are called selfish or evil due to this disease.

    I think it's less about environmentalism or a pandemic and mostly about controlling the populace.
     
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  11. cosmo

    cosmo Well-Known Member

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    I'm pointing out the hypocrisy of the two viewpoints that opening up sections of the economy for non-critical reasons is deliberately killing people for money, and somehow those who are self appointed "pro-life" people are okay with that. It's hypocritical. There are methods, such as stimulus programs and mortgage/rent deferment, that can save lives. I'm not twisting anything, I'm pointing out the hypocrisy directly.

    You are mentioning people being given the freedom to work if they want to work. I believe you're being optimistic on employer's positions on this. The more likely outcome will be that they will be forced work, whether they feel safe or not or whether proper PPE has been provided. If they don't go to work, they're let go. Rather than the current position that once the virus slows and safety protocols are in place, they can return to their position as the stimulus packages allowed the business to stay afloat during this.

    There are already plans for reopening of the economy slowly, in a manner which is believed to be the safest method possible. There's a ton of civic engineering going on redesigning restaurants, bars, movie theaters, etc. to try to include a better social distancing effort. Rushing this is foolish. Look at the benefits shown of the quarantine actions. You're beginning to see the plateau. You would seriously throw that away?

    If the government begins raising permanent restrictions, sure. Protest away. But these complaints are short sighted. Controlling the populace is a buzz phrase to incite an emotional response, rather than try to work through this problem logically.
     
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  12. Hack

    Hack Well-Known Member

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    The original reason for all these measures was to "flatten the curve" to prevent overwhelming hospitals. In most of the country, hospitals are empty. We locked down too early and for too long.

    Now people have "pivoted" the reason to be preventing death. It's sad, but YOU CAN'T PREVENT DEATH. If preventing death from a disease is an adequate reason to lock everything down, we will be locked down over and over again. More Americans die from the flu some years than have died from Covid so far.

    People are already let go from their jobs. That ship has sailed.
     
  13. cosmo

    cosmo Well-Known Member

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    Flattening the curve to not overwhelm hospitals was to prevent death. It's the same concept, you just take the logical conclusion of "what happens to people if hospitals are overwhelmed". They die.

    You're distanced from an epicenter. In Detroit, the COVID hospitals are full. The states and locations further away from epicenters per the guidelines will be able to open sooner. The 14 day window will be easier to achieve.

    Stop repeating what you heard months ago from Fox news and Trump about this being like the flu. You can't claim the numbers not being much worse than the flu, while ignoring the fact the only reason those numbers are "only that bad" is because of the shutdown orders. Without them, this would have soared past the total deaths of the flu over the last 5-10 years. If you immediately lift them, there's nothing stopping that from happening again.

    We definitely didn't shut down too early. Look at how we were projecting through the beginning of this, right along a path to millions of deaths. The shutdown actions heavily stunted this growth, and through the guidelines which seem reasonable, things should be able to begin being turned back on.
     
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  14. Siege

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  15. watisthis

    watisthis Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, I did a good bit of research on this over the weekend and wrote up a post in another thread about it. From reserve lookup and whois it was pretty easy to tell that something was fishy when the domains were all registered with the same registrar and were registered on the exact same day at the same time. Given their proxy obscured who owns the domains but that really doesn't matter as it is obvious its all the same person or group. Hell, even their Facebook pages have the same description and layout. People fell for this bait hook line and sinker. I wouldn't say this is some massive conspiracy, but the Russians did this in 2016 with Texit, the idea that Texas was going to secede, lol.
     
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