Voodoo Theory

[Pablo GT350]

Yep. 500hp crank appears to be fairly easy if not a bit expensive. The prescription is long tube headers and a cobra jet IM. Add cams and ur over 500 at the wheels. I cant wait.

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[Falc'man]

Nope. Doing so and meeting regulations is not easy.

 

[Pablo GT350]

BS. 100hp/L is easily doable. its been done by honda, bmw, ect... Look at the oem headers on an E92 M3.

 

[Falc'man]

You're ignoring some facts. When capacity/cyl is low enough this translates to less inertia in the rotating assembly, allowing the use of flat plane cranks as well as higher rpms, and that's the main ingredient when attempting to make power with atmo motors.

If it was so easy then take a look around and find me one manufacturer that can do it with the same or more cubes per cyl as the 5.0.... I don't think you'll find one but I could be mistaken.

 

[Falc'man]

Also, if it was so easy then Roadrunner was a flop at 89hp/litre.

The only motor I could think of is AMG's 7.3 in the special ONE-OFF editions that Pagani built. They made 104hp/litre and they still don't have the same cubes per cyl as the Coyote.

If Voodoo makes 104hp/litre I'd be very surprised. That would equate to almost 540hp.

 

[Pablo GT350]

The technology required is relatively easy to engineer. I didn't say it was cheap. It does not take a FPC although that helps for revs. And these engines don't get good gas milage. For this discussion, who cares.
There are many engines that do it. C/D listed the top 5 NA here:
http://www.caranddriver.com/features/2012-10best-highest-specific-output-engines-features

They range from 4l ti 5.2l. The least efficient generated 108 hp/l. Yes they all rev high and they are all expensive.

But lets look at the e92 M3 (old so not on that list). 4liters that revs to 8200 or more and achieves 414hp. Meets the requirement for 100 hp per liter. How does it achieve that? An intake manifold that basically has velocity stacks. An exhaust manifold that is a piece of art. Yes you have to get the cats close to the engine to pass cold start emissions, but bmw made it happen. And this is old tech, came out in 2008. So even if it didn't rev quite as high it would be close to 400 hp.

Ok now the roadrunner. I'd hardly call that a flop at 89hp/l. In fact its Fawesome. But some power was left on the table. That boss intake was cool at the time, but the CJ intake is probably 20hp better. Yea they spent some extra dollars on the exhaust manifold, but they could have spent more and got a few more hp. So the point is 100hp/l was in reach. They chose not to spend what it took to get all of it. I'm ok with that.

Now the good news. In this country we mod our cars. We delete the cats. We get tunes. We don't care about mpg's while we are at WOT. The current coyote can hit 500hp crank with $3k worth of mods. America, Fyea.

 

[nametoshowothers]

The technology required is relatively easy to engineer. I didn't say it was cheap. It does not take a FPC although that helps for revs. And these engines don't get good gas milage. For this discussion, who cares.
There are many engines that do it. C/D listed the top 5 NA here:
http://www.caranddriver.com/features/2012-10best-highest-specific-output-engines-features

They range from 4l ti 5.2l. The least efficient generated 108 hp/l. Yes they all rev high and they are all expensive.

But lets look at the e92 M3 (old so not on that list). 4liters that revs to 8200 or more and achieves 414hp. Meets the requirement for 100 hp per liter. How does it achieve that? An intake manifold that basically has velocity stacks. An exhaust manifold that is a piece of art. Yes you have to get the cats close to the engine to pass cold start emissions, but bmw made it happen. And this is old tech, came out in 2008. So even if it didn't rev quite as high it would be close to 400 hp.

Ok now the roadrunner. I'd hardly call that a flop at 89hp/l. In fact its Fawesome. But some power was left on the table. That boss intake was cool at the time, but the CJ intake is probably 20hp better. Yea they spent some extra dollars on the exhaust manifold, but they could have spent more and got a few more hp. So the point is 100hp/l was in reach. They chose not to spend what it took to get all of it. I'm ok with that.

Now the good news. In this country we mod our cars. We delete the cats. We get tunes. We don't care about mpg's while we are at WOT. The current coyote can hit 500hp crank with $3k worth of mods. America, Fyea.

Thank you for completing the homework assignment

 

[Pablo GT350]

This aint rocket science.

 

[Falc'man]

You've basically proven my point - NONE of those motors have the same cubes per cylinder (as the Coyote) which dictates the amount of revs that can be achieved whilst adhering to regulations.

Again, are you able to find ANY production engine that has an equal capacity/cylinder as the Coyote that can achieve 100hp per litre?

 

[on d bit]

Firstly we don't know if what we've heard was ever a voodoo engine. Second, many owners have built their Coyotes to produce well in excess of 100hp/liter even when measured at the wheels. It isn't hard for me to fathom a maximum factory effort Coyote making more than 500hp.

What is a voodoo engine?

Many, as in more than 10 have built their 5.0 motor to more than 500rwhp n/a? I have not heard of one....maybe Im just out of the loop?

 

[Falc'man]

What is a voodoo engine?

Many, as in more than 10 have built their 5.0 motor to more than 500rwhp n/a? I have not heard of one....maybe Im just out of the loop?

He didn't say rw.. It's all besides the point; we're talking about production motors not modded... apples and oranges.

Voodoo is the codename for the GT350's motor.

 

[Pablo GT350]

geezus dude. you said the roadrunner made 89hp/l. thats pretty close. with a better intake and better headers they could almost get there. you must just like to argue.

 

[Falc'man]

geezus dude. you said the roadrunner made 89hp/l. thats pretty close. with a better intake and better headers they could almost get there. you must just like to argue.

No, a difference in 11hp amounts to almost 60hp. Saying that's "pretty close" is the difference between 465hp and 520hp. In the context of production engines that is a BIG difference.

So because you can't back up your claim that it's "easily doable" you resort to that? You say I'm arguing, I say you can't distinguish between reality and disney land.

 

[Pablo GT350]

Ferrari 458 Italia — 562 hp at 9,000 rpm: 4.5-liter, whats that work out to out 8000 rpm?

Hyundai Genesis type R, direct-injected 5.0-liter V8, 429 horsepower at 6,400. Extrapolate the output at 8000 rpms. Wouldn't be to shabby.

 

[Pablo GT350]

No, a difference in 11hp amounts to almost 60hp. Saying that's "pretty close" is the difference between 465hp and 520hp. In the context of production engines that is a BIG difference.

So because you can't back up your claim that it's "easily doable" you resort to that? You say I'm arguing, I say you can't distinguish between reality and disney land.

Yep. I'm saying the roadrunners 88 hp/l was a pretty good effort considering they still had a few tricks they decided not to use. And the after market offers those parts. Ford racing offers those parts. If you choose not to use them thats your business but plenty of people do. And its been well documented what the gains are.

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