Upgrading P1X to…

[KKell83]

You cant have both boost and timing on pump gas. And really, you shouldn't even be considering turning it up at all, until you are running E85. 91/93 octane gasoline is just asking for problems.

That part is now taken care of.

Same with the weak timing down low as I am now with Wengerd Tuning. The original guy who tuned my car was local and quote “I’ve used the same timing curve since the dawn of the Coyote.” <— was probably accurate

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[KKell83]

I'd like to give my appreciation to those who’ve taken the time who have expressed their opinions and experiences towards my question(s).

I definitely gathered more information than ever expected. I can’t wait to see what the future brings.

Thanks!

 

[SolarFlare]

What's the most you dynoed with your setup? 850?

Less but that’s irrelevant as I don’t run on how it makes the most power on a dyno, i run it how it accelerates the fastest. Has gone 153 in positive DA mediocre weather. Can probably go 155-156 now if I had a track same weather. On a converter car that those roads don’t run parallel to each other.

 

[KKell83]

Less but that’s irrelevant as I don’t run on how it makes the most power on a dyno, i run it how it accelerates the fastest. Has gone 153 in positive DA mediocre weather. Can probably go 155-156 now if I had a track same weather. On a converter car that those roads don’t run parallel to each other.

oh yeah, that makes sense. So you’re playing more with gearing and suspension work?

Your perfect weather will come. Good luck to you!

 

[SolarFlare]

oh yeah, that makes sense. So you’re playing more with gearing and suspension work?

Your perfect weather will come. Good luck to you!

The biggest advantage of the 10r is the small rpm drop between gears….you need the converter to help you achieve the same on a 6r when it typically doesn’t. 6r has big rpm drops on shifts typically, converter slip decreases it.

 

[robvas]

So you can trap 175 on a 3900 lb car with 1120 rear?

The car has gained some weight I see.

"Fastest P1X ProCharger Car 7.830 @ 178mph 3600lbs."

FWIW here is a 925rwhp D1X powered 3,800lb car going 158mph

 

[andrewtac]

Did cams on my gen3 vortech car, unfortunately they had oil pressure issues and had to go back to stock. Phasers were not machined correctly. I have reached out to comp for new ones and nothing. Just a heads up since cams were brought up.

 

[Angrey]

The car has gained some weight I see.

"Fastest P1X ProCharger Car 7.830 @ 178mph 3600lbs."

FWIW here is a 925rwhp D1X powered 3,800lb car going 158mph

Sigh, just stop.

Showing me a car that weights 275 lbs less, with a 500 cubic inch motor and a D series blower, trapping 17 mph less, doesn't help the issue AT ALL. In fact, it's almost making my case.

The car in the link to the other thread is a 3875 "full weight" mustang alleged to trap 175 mph on a coyote with a P1X blower.

Can a 3875 lb car trap 175 mph? Yup. Just not with a P1X blower (or not a P1X that any of us can buy).
Can a P1X (retail/commercial) blower car trap 175mph? Yup. Just not at 3975+ race weight.

The particular combination of a nearly 2 ton car, coyote motor with a blower that maxes out about 33% less than what's needed to accelerate a 2 ton vehicle to 175 mph over a quarter mile is HIGHLY HIGHLY HIGHLY dubious.

SOMETHING in that equation is absurdly exaggerated or downright untruthful. Either the car weighs less, the blower is putting out more, there's some other power adder utilized, some combination of those, OR it's complete bullshit.

You're not taking a P1X that you or I buy from any vendor and pushing a 2 ton weight coyote car (with driver) to 175 mph trap speeds.

IT IS FANTASY. You'd need almost 1500 rwhp for that.

 

[robvas]

Procharger's "specs" on the blower say "P-1X™ is 875+ HP capable"

They then show, on their own site, a stock engine Coyote (with oil pump gears and headers) making 920whp, and it's not even on the smallest "officially supported pulley"

"We rate the horsepower of these units at the crankshaft, however, our customers have already started to show off numbers far exceeding our expectations. They are doing this by having well-dialed camshaft/engine combos and some wizards behind the engine tuning.

So obviously they underrate the blower.

So you don't think 1100+ WHP would be possible on a built Coyote? A heavier 925whp car trapped 158mph.

Then you call the racer a liar, and basically call out the entire organization that weighs the cars at the event. Because the scales are off by 900lbs.

Again, this is the fastest P1X car. Not every car. Race engine. A million tricks up their sleeves. Probably spinning the blower to some insane speed.

 

[Angrey]

Procharger's "specs" on the blower say "P-1X™ is 875+ HP capable"

They then show, on their own site, a stock engine Coyote (with oil pump gears and headers) making 920whp, and it's not even on the smallest "officially supported pulley"

"We rate the horsepower of these units at the crankshaft, however, our customers have already started to show off numbers far exceeding our expectations. They are doing this by having well-dialed camshaft/engine combos and some wizards behind the engine tuning.

So obviously they underrate the blower.

So you don't think 1100+ WHP would be possible on a built Coyote? A heavier 925whp car trapped 158mph.

Then you call the racer a liar, and basically call out the entire organization that weighs the cars at the event. Because the scales are off by 900lbs.

Again, this is the fastest P1X car. Not every car. Race engine. A million tricks up their sleeves. Probably spinning the blower to some insane speed.

You just don't get it. You keep throwing out the wrong numbers.

The car in question is a 3875 lb mustang on a coyote motor running a P1X to 175 mph in the 1/4.

Even with a 100 female driver, that means a nearly 2 ton vehicle at 175 mph. You can pick whatever calculator you want, that requires around 1500 rwhp.

There's no P1X blower making 1500 rwhp. At least not one that you or I can buy.

There's no escaping the physics on this. The car you posted was actually LIGHTER (not heavier). Did you even look at the link to the other thread? 3875 lbs. The car you posted is 3600 (or 3800) so it's lighter has a ginormous nearly 500 inch motor and a D1 blower.

Focus here Jimbo, you're not going 175 in a 4,000 lb car with a P1X blower. Period.

 

[robvas]

At a certain point, a bigger engine is not going to run as well in the 1/4 as a smaller one with the same blower. But that doesn't matter.

You're avoiding the fact that a 925whp car went 158mph, that's the same weight as the car that went 178

So where you are getting 1500hp being required to go 20 mph faster?

You're going to try to argue this to death just like you did when you told the guy he shouldn't rev his engine past 6500 for best results. Trying to say some torque vs hp bullshit.

you're trying to race with a calculator again except your math is wrong and the evidence is right in front of you

 

[Angrey]

At a certain point, a bigger engine is not going to run as well in the 1/4 as a smaller one with the same blower. But that doesn't matter.

You're avoiding the fact that a 925whp car went 158mph, that's the same weight as the car that went 178

So where you are getting 1500hp being required to go 20 mph faster?

You're going to try to argue this to death just like you did when you told the guy he shouldn't rev his engine past 6500 for best results. Trying to say some torque vs hp bullshit.

you're trying to race with a calculator again except your math is wrong and the evidence is right in front of you

I'm done arguing with you. You don't have the mental faculties. I can explain it to you, but I can't understand it for you.

 

[robvas]

I'm done arguing with you. You don't have the mental faculties. I can explain it to you, but I can't understand it for you.

Exactly what you said last time you were wrong

 

[wazslow]

You just don't get it. You keep throwing out the wrong numbers.

The car in question is a 3875 lb mustang on a coyote motor running a P1X to 175 mph in the 1/4.

Even with a 100 female driver, that means a nearly 2 ton vehicle at 175 mph. You can pick whatever calculator you want, that requires around 1500 rwhp.

There's no P1X blower making 1500 rwhp. At least not one that you or I can buy.

There's no escaping the physics on this. The car you posted was actually LIGHTER (not heavier). Did you even look at the link to the other thread? 3875 lbs. The car you posted is 3600 (or 3800) so it's lighter has a ginormous nearly 500 inch motor and a D1 blower.

Focus here Jimbo, you're not going 175 in a 4,000 lb car with a P1X blower. Period.

In drag racing, most people are stating the weight with driver. You shouldn't be adding another 100lbs. I know that won't change your mind and you'll still think a P1X can't run 175mph.

Look at the X275 cars. They shouldn't be able to run as fast as they do with the given turbo/supercharger rules, but they do. Your comparing Street car run of the mill stuff to sorted out dedicated racecars. They aren't the same thing.

 

[Angrey]

Exactly what you said last time you were wrong

That's because you're either uneducated or didn't pay attention in school.

The "LAWS" of physics are inviolable (that's what makes them laws).

in a classical physics model we can calculate simple Newtonian motion for any object (doesn't matter if it's a car, rocket ship, or an uneducated M6G member) that accelerates from rest.

So let's pretend we're in the high school physics class in which you apparently did not pay attention.

For a 3875 lb (let's be generous and assume that includes race weight with driver), to accelerate that mass, from rest, to 175 mph, over 1,320 feet, requires a minimum/(theoretically perfect) amount of energy and acceleration. In the real world specifics of our race car example, inefficiencies like rolling resistance and air resistance, etc come into play but we'll get to that in a moment.

We can calculate how much energy (over a given distance and time) is required to propel an object in PERFECT conditions. We can also calculate things like force (which is required to accelerate an object) and the work done over the length to produce other things like work and power.

Stay with me here Jimbo, I know you're not going to understand any of this.

So if someone walks in and says "My car has 100 horsepower and I ran 6.50 @ 212 mph in the quarter mile" our first reaction would be skeptical, until we found out that his car weighs 210 lbs with his weight included. If he were to make the same claim for a 3900 lb car, we'd CLEARLY know he's lying or withholding some crucial piece of information, because it is PHYSICALLY IMPOSSIBLE TO ACCELERATE AN OBJECT OF THAT MASS TO THAT SPEED OVER THAT DISTANCE WITH THAT SMALL OF A POWER (energy/time).

There are NUMEROUS calculators that have not only done the math/physics for you, some of them actually incorporate real world/empirical data which takes into account things like air resistance which comes into play more and more as the end speeds increase. (Again, I know you're not going to understand this, but the amount of power to increase top speed of 90 mph to 100 mph is SIGNIFICANTLY less than to increase from 160 mph to 170 mph).

This isn't voodoo science or controversial and many calculators can estimate the power of a car (to within a fairly accurate measure) if the weight, distance and time of acceleration is known.

To accelerate a 3975 lb car to 175 mph over 1320 feet, takes about 1500 hp TO THE WHEELS (meaning net work done to the system resulting in forward acceleration, accounting for loss).

The bottom line here is SOMETHING in this equation is very far out of whack. Either the car weighs less (which is my first candidate given the photo of the engine bay), the car makes way more power than a typical P1X limits we've seen and observed OR the blower is "labeled" as a P1X but it's a special version that Procharger isn't telling us the details about because they want the marketing glory of claiming that anyone can buy a P1X and trap 175 mph with it on a "full weight" car.

It's fantasy. It's IMPOSSIBLE. Something in the equation needs to be adjusted to bring it back to reality.

Either the blower is modified and increased (allowing for MUCH more power), or the car is lighter (or some other input being left out, like nitrous). I'm ASSUMING that the speed and ET aren't fudged.

I can't lay it out ANY clearer than that for you. If you still can't cog it, there's no amount of posts that's going to help you understand basic physics and dynamics.

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