Upcoming competition for the 350?

[ihc95]

1LE is a package, not a trim level.

Yes I know that. What's your point?

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[Sasuketr]

Interesting, out of curiosity is that dyno graph comparing the same transmissions? If its Manual vs Automatic a 2-3% powertrain loss could explain the difference and even flip it around some.

Even if we assume as average the camaro puts down 10 whp more, is it going to overcome the 300+ lbs weight difference? No way its happening! Straight line or raod coarse, corvette will always edge the camaro due to lighter weight!

 

[Sasuketr]

Even if the 1LE is as quick as a non-R GT350, it's not as special. GM doesn't have anything up their sleeves as exciting or special as the Voodoo. You know you've made a great car when a lot of people could care less about the numbers and prefer it because of how it makes them feel.

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Gt350 is a unique beauty, and special but if 1le package on a base camaro comes around 42 grand and still beats the base gt350 around a track, then you gotta ask yourself if spending more than 8 grand on gt350 is feasible! That is also without the ADM. GT350 will hold its value pretty good but looking at the camaro's current resale values, i would say 1le won't be far behind!

 

[Nataphen]

Gt350 is a unique beauty, and special but if 1le package on a base camaro comes around 42 grand and still beats the base gt350 around a track, then you gotta ask yourself if spending more than 8 grand on gt350 is feasible! That is also without the ADM. GT350 will hold its value pretty good but looking at the camaro's current resale values, i would say 1le won't be far behind!

I could see that being the argument if you're keeping the car stock. Many people are going to modify their cars though, and the GT350 is going to have a much more capable NA setup. I think that if the GT350 had come out with 4.10 or 4.30 gears, nobody would be making these arguments. Fuel efficiency is probably the main reason behind that, some of it is being able to hold gears for longer.

I feel that 4.10 would've been about the perfect gear for a stock GT350. 3.73 is fine to me, but with 4.10s, we'd probably see .2-.3 quicker average acceleration from a dead stop. It would also still have plenty of gear for a road course, and mileage wouldn't suffer enough to matter to most buyers. The laggy first gear is the cause of everyone's main gripe. Not people who have actually driven the cars, but bench racers. You know?

If you're leaving the cars stock, the Camaro seems like a good way to go. If you're not leaving them stock, I'd say you have to be crazy to overlook the power potential advantage that the GT350 has. 40whp/30wtq with just a Lund tune on E85? Come on now. You're already making more power with that than every bolt-on and exhaust upgrade that you can throw at the LT1. Not to mention the much broader power band.

 

[cosmo]

I could see that being the argument if you're keeping the car stock. Many people are going to modify their cars though, and the GT350 is going to have a much more capable NA setup. I think that if the GT350 had come out with 4.10 or 4.30 gears, nobody would be making these arguments. Fuel efficiency is probably the main reason behind that, some of it is being able to hold gears for longer.

I feel that 4.10 would've been about the perfect gear for a stock GT350. 3.73 is fine to me, but with 4.10s, we'd probably see .2-.3 quicker average acceleration from a dead stop. It would also still have plenty of gear for a road course, and mileage wouldn't suffer enough to matter to most buyers. The laggy first gear is the cause of everyone's main gripe. Not people who have actually driven the cars, but bench racers. You know?

If you're leaving the cars stock, the Camaro seems like a good way to go. If you're not leaving them stock, I'd say you have to be crazy to overlook the power potential advantage that the GT350 has. 40whp/30wtq with just a Lund tune on E85? Come on now. You're already making more power with that than every bolt-on and exhaust upgrade that you can throw at the LT1. Not to mention the much broader power band.

LT1 has E85 conversion kits as well, and boosts the power and torque by 30-40 WHP and 50-70 WTQ. If you're going to talk about gear swaps and ignore the $$$ involved, then you have to account for E85 LT1s.

The usable powerbands are actually about the same. The RPMs are different, but the gearing gives very similar shift point and torque curves. The 350 has more net torque, but shoots itself in the foot with the horrid first gear. Look at that huge spike in first gear for the 350 where it goes from the nothing to the everything though. That is difficult to make sure traction is sustained. Putting in more gear just means that spike will get more exaggerated. You either bog below that spike, or burn out above it.

 

[Khell86]

I have a feeling that GM chooses to go hardcore with the 1LE it'll be a whole lot more pricier than the past 1LE package. The 5th gen's package was a hell of a deal, but I dont think that'll be the case for this model's. They'll need to definitely upgrade the brakes/wheels/tires. Then you're looking at huge weight gains that'll offset GM's work with the lighter smaller breaks and already light wheels.

 

[Nataphen]

Can you show me something indicating that the LT1 makes that much more power on E85? I know from C7s that they gain about 60whp with CAI, catless LTs, and 93 octane tune. I haven't seen one with full bolt-ons and E85.

Keeping a car above 3,500 after first gear shouldn't be a problem. E85 brings the usuable power into the 3,000 range, so it's even less of an issue. 4.10s get you there quicker, so it's practically a non-issue at that point. So, if we're talking about modifying cars, you get past that whole crap first gear issue.

Fully bolted and tuned LT1s start falling off a little before 5,800. So, usable power band is 3,000-6,500. Realistically, you're not using anything below 3,000 for performance. That would help it feel punchier around town if you're after that, but that's it.

 

[cosmo]

Can you show me something indicating that the LT1 makes that much more power on E85? I know from C7s that they gain about 60whp with CAI, catless LTs, and 93 octane tune. I haven't seen one with full bolt-ons and E85.

[ame]

Stock was apparently 416. Isn't the best before/after but it can be done.

 

[Nataphen]

Stock was apparently 416. Isn't the best before/after but it can be done.

Thanks. That's more impressive than I expected. Was that stock versus tune and E85, or E85 tune versus gasoline tune?

 

[cosmo]

Thanks. That's more impressive than I expected. Was that stock versus tune and E85, or E85 tune versus gasoline tune?

Looks to be Stock at 416, Headers at 423, then E85 at the 451.

 

[Nataphen]

Looks to be Stock at 416, Headers at 423, then E85 at the 451.

I edited an above post with a full bolt on and tune C7. I'm still thinking the Voodoo is going to have a noticeable advantage if it's done right.

 

[Sasuketr]

I would like to see a gtpp with gt350 intake, handling upgrade w/ wider tires, full exhaust and livernois e85 tune against a base gt350;) People already started seeing amazing results with the gt350 intakes!

 

[Myshelby3425]

I would like to see a gtpp with gt350 intake, handling upgrade w/ wider tires, full exhaust and livernois e85 tune against a base gt350;) People already started seeing amazing results with the gt350 intakes!

It would be a close run going straight.. They make better gains than the boss manifold.


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[cosmo]

I edited an above post with a full bolt on and tune C7. I'm still thinking the Voodoo is going to have a noticeable advantage if it's done right.

I agree. I think the Voodoo will always make more power, and the higher RPM limiter allows shorter gearing to give the 350 a similar usable power band to the incredibly loooooong gears of the LT1 vehicles. I'd still be cautious though, as it seems the Camaro chassis has better bones than the Mustang chassis. The 1LE, which has historically come with shorter gears, might be able to put up quite a fight whether you're looking at stock vs stock or mod vs mod.

 

[Nataphen]

I completely agree on the chassis being superior. I wish I could get an engine that was as interesting as the Voodoo is to me in a GM car, or a chassis as good as the alpha in a Mustang. First world problems I guess.

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