Trading a Mustang

[dmcg940]

I believe I can get at least $3500 more than what the dealer offered. It will be a PITA since I work tons of hours at my job but very well be worth it.

No doubt you can. Dealers can either give you a great price on the new car, a high trade price, or neither, but neve both. They need to make money. You got an OK price in this market, where probably anything under MSRP is a win. But you can sell a nice Mustang over KBB for sure, if it's clean, you market it in the right place and you are a bit patient. You are making the right call.

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[Jbo9122]

I’ve been half-assed shopping around with no real intentions of trading unless the right deal comes along. It seems to me that a few dealers are offering low-ball trade allowances on my Mustang and I wondered if anyone else was experiencing this. One issue I seem to be having is that no one knows what a PP2 is and therefor they treat it like a PP1. Other dealers don’t even bother to add any option packages and offer base GT money. I have confirmed this using KBB and Truecar which align almost exactly with my assumptions. For example, KBB shows a base GT being worth $34-$36k while a PP2 with Recaro seats adds approximately $5000. TrueCar is similar with their values being about $2000 higher. I even used one dealer’s online tool (Edmunds True Value) and that was consistent with KBB and TrueCar.

My question is has anyone else experienced this and if so, how did you proceed?

I personally refuse to pay over MSRP and I will not accept a low-ball trade offer. I have an awesome car now and don’t need to trade. I just get restless and want to experience as many cool cars as possible before they get taken away.
I understand the current market for new cars but also understand the impact that it has on used car values. In the end it should be a wash. I’m not getting screwed twice.

Obligatory pic to draw attention.

Traded my 15 mustang gt premium with 68000 on the clock. They offered 23000 I got them to go up 1000k. They ended up selling it for 28500. Loved the car but currently enjoying the 392.

 

[KingKona]

While I respect your different opinion I have to suggest YOU radically change your approach in regard to giving others advice. Your use of insults (moron) and absolutes (always, never) renders what you say useless. This is not because I’m a snowflake but rather I feel your inability to make a point without these tactics calls your intelligence into question. I am curious as to how many times your approach has actually been successful.

3 out of 3. 100% One sheet of paper, everything detailed out, a yes or no situation. Bought my last 3 Mustangs that way. Absolutes are a way of setting clearly defined limits in thought processes.

Buying a vehicle is a negotiation.....

No, it's not. It's what YOU make of it. It's what you allow it to be.

Your very clearly stated mind-set is "buying a vehicle is a negotiation", so you go along with it. You are under 0 obligation to do so.

 

[Marsalad]

KingKona,

In my opinion, due to the fact that most vehicle list prices are “suggested” with a few exceptions, and therefore both sides consider them flexible, that the overwhelming majority of purchases involve negotiations. Even stating “I’ll give you $35,000 out the door for that Mustang with the $37,500 MSRP” is a form of negotiation. The MSRP is the seller’s implied opening offer. The $35k is the counteroffer. That’s negotiation. If the seller counters with $38k and you walk out then you still have negotiated. If the seller accepts your counteroffer to their implied opening offer, BAM! Negotiated!
Even if the Beta customer timidly mumbled “can you do any better on the price” that still is negotiation.
Only if the customer walks in and says “I’ll take that one, write it up” without ever mentioning price would I feel no haggling has occurred.
I agree that neither party is obligated to negotiate a vehicle purchase but that’s the way it’s usually done. The customer can walk away at any time if the dealer won’t accept their terms.

 

[Bulldog9]

I'm thinking of trading my Bullitt for a Taycan........

 

[KingKona]

KingKona,

In my opinion, due to the fact that most vehicle list prices are “suggested” with a few exceptions, and therefore both sides consider them flexible, that the overwhelming majority of purchases involve negotiations. Even stating “I’ll give you $35,000 out the door for that Mustang with the $37,500 MSRP” is a form of negotiation. The MSRP is the seller’s implied opening offer. The $35k is the counteroffer. That’s negotiation. If the seller counters with $38k and you walk out then you still have negotiated. If the seller accepts your counteroffer to their implied opening offer, BAM! Negotiated!
Even if the Beta customer timidly mumbled “can you do any better on the price” that still is negotiation.
Only if the customer walks in and says “I’ll take that one, write it up” without ever mentioning price would I feel no haggling has occurred.
I agree that neither party is obligated to negotiate a vehicle purchase but that’s the way it’s usually done. The customer can walk away at any time if the dealer won’t accept their terms.

I'm just trying to help you and others understand a better purchasing experience. There's no reason to negotiate, argue, or be stressed over buying a car.

Walking in with a sheet of paper, handing it to the sales person and asking "yes or no?", isn't negotiating. There is 0 back-and-forth over price involved. None. Not for the vehicle being bought, not for the trade-in, no negotiating at all. And it makes things smooth and relaxed for everyone involved, including the sales person and the sales manager. It also ensures that the buyer is happy, as they've set the parameters for the purchase, not the dealership.

 

[noGreta!]

My question is has anyone else experienced this and if so, how did you proceed?

Obligatory pic to draw attention.

After having a catastrophically bad experience with my Ford dealer both in the sale and service of my vehicle, I have been testing the waters with other automakers' dealerships and I have been getting average offers that hover around the BB value.

I think that a private sale would net far better results. Despite used cars in good condition being aggressively sought after in the market, a dealer will not match that as they get far better deals at auto auctions.

That being said, the only thing keeping me from trading in my 5K mile GT is the lack of new inventory - not the inevitable financial hit from the transaction.

 

[Buldawg76]

I must have a good dealer that I have bought 4 cars from in the past 7 years, 3 new and one used that is the 2020 mustang I now have. The first car in 2015 was with no trade since I sold my trade privately but bought it on 0% for 60 financing at below MSRP. Traded it in 2 years later and got more than my asking price in trade in plus below MSRP on new vehicle at 0/60 financing, then traded again in 2 years and again got more than asking trade in value on new demo that was discounted over 10k from MSRP at 1.9% financing. Just traded it in this past December and got 1700.00 more trade in than I paid for it new in 2019 on my current 2020 mustang with 5800 miles and my payment went up 10 bucks a month for 63 month payment from what I was paying on the 2019 Edge I traded. I owed 23,000 on Edge and got mustang for 26,000 out the door so it was only a 3000 dollar difference in finance costs. The mustang was MSRP of 37,800 on window sticker.

I go in with a set price I am willing to pay in a monthly payment and length of payments for the vehicle I want to buy, if the dealer will meet that price I leave with the car if not then I walk out the door. So far my dealer has always met that price point. They can put any numbers on the paper work they want as long as my monthly payment and length of payments meets my goals it really makes no difference to me.

BD

 

[bigmixx]

OP, I have a 2020 PP2 as well and started kicking around the idea of selling it. I checked the online offerings (Vroom, Carvana, & Driveway) and I received the best offer from Driveway which was a little over $45K. Carvana $39k. Vroom $35K. My car is a loaded GT Premium with every option with 4k miles on it. Bought it brand new in Nov 2020. KBB valued it at $45K trade in Good Condition. With that said I had it appraised at a BMW dealership and they offered me $37K with the main issue being it needed tires. To the untrained eye the Michelin Cup 2s do look worn out even though they're not which I think will impact trade value on the PP2s if you still have the original tires.

 

[Marsalad]

OP, I have a 2020 PP2 as well and started kicking around the idea of selling it. I checked the online offerings (Vroom, Carvana, & Driveway) and I received the best offer from Driveway which was a little over $45K. Carvana $39k. Vroom $35K. My car is a loaded GT Premium with every option with 4k miles on it. Bought it brand new in Nov 2020. KBB valued it at $45K trade in Good Condition. With that said I had it appraised at a BMW dealership and they offered me $37K with the main issue being it needed tires. To the untrained eye the Michelin Cup 2s do look worn out even though they're not which I think will impact trade value on the PP2s if you still have the original tires.

I have not tried Driveway. My car is a base GT with PP2 and cloth Recaro seats being the only options. The offer of $41k is probably the most I’ll get. At this point I’m not sure I even want to replace it because it’s such an awesome car.
As for the tires, I replaced the Cup 2’s with PS4s at around 1300 miles. The Ford dealer I bought it from also thought they needed to be replaced because they were unfamiliar with them.

 

[bigmixx]

Also, just wanted to comment on the car buying process being discussed. IMO, the best time to buy a car is when you don't NEED one. It's much easier to walk away from the deal if you don't like the number the dealer is giving you. Car buying is emotional so you have to remove your emotions from the situation. I've also found that the less information you give to the salesperson up front the better you'll be at navigating through the BS they throw at you. 3 of the first questions they ask...What kind of payment do you want?, Do you have a trade?, and Are you putting money down?" These 3 bits of information are critical because they use them to their advantage. I never give them a monthly payment amount, I never put money down, and I'm not trading my car even though I know I am...And I don't allow them to pull my credit until after we've negotiated the price on the car. I also secure my own financing so when we get to that point in the process, I let them know my credit union/bank has offered me X% interest rate so they know that they're in competition already.

But everyone has their way of doing it. At the end of the day if you walk away happy then that's all that matters. I will say that the best deal I've ever gotten no one was happy other than the owner because he needed to move a car that had been sitting for far too long lol

 

[bigmixx]

I have not tried Driveway. My car is a base GT with PP2 and cloth Recaro seats being the only options. The offer of $41k is probably the most I’ll get. At this point I’m not sure I even want to replace it because it’s such an awesome car.
As for the tires, I replaced the Cup 2’s with PS4s at around 1300 miles. The Ford dealer I bought it from also thought they needed to be replaced because they were unfamiliar with them.

Try Driveway. I think $41k is a good deal for a base PP2. How many miles do you have on it?

As for the Cup 2's. My dealer said the same thing. I took it in for my first oil change @ roughly 500 miles and the service guy told me to lay off the burnouts because I'm going to need tires soon LOL. I laughed and said I haven't done a single burnout. It's a PP2 package. Of course he had no idea what a PP2 was and they had 3 of them sitting on the lot.

 

[cmxPPL219]

the best time to buy a car is when you don't NEED one.

Absolutely spot on - I always promote this idea to anyone who asks. bigmixx you've laid out why already, but I'd add that, just like any other major appliance like an A/C unit, furnace - you notice that when you absolutely need a car, due it being broken down, etc., the usual thing that happens is you're in crisis and panic mode, and you don't have the freedom to walk away when things aren't in your best interest.

I heard it said before that this is the "broke man's mindset," that you squeeze out every last drop of value from something, and it's waste to throw it away when it "still works," when in fact, one can be better served parting with something that still has value to tap into, while also taking your own time to get into something new. Again, an ideal scenario to be in, but most I figure can.

 

[Call_Me_Bruce]

Also, just wanted to comment on the car buying process being discussed. IMO, the best time to buy a car is when you don't NEED one. It's much easier to walk away from the deal if you don't like the number the dealer is giving you. Car buying is emotional so you have to remove your emotions from the situation. I've also found that the less information you give to the salesperson up front the better you'll be at navigating through the BS they throw at you. 3 of the first questions they ask...What kind of payment do you want?, Do you have a trade?, and Are you putting money down?" These 3 bits of information are critical because they use them to their advantage. I never give them a monthly payment amount, I never put money down, and I'm not trading my car even though I know I am...And I don't allow them to pull my credit until after we've negotiated the price on the car. I also secure my own financing so when we get to that point in the process, I let them know my credit union/bank has offered me X% interest rate so they know that they're in competition already.

But everyone has their way of doing it. At the end of the day if you walk away happy then that's all that matters. I will say that the best deal I've ever gotten no one was happy other than the owner because he needed to move a car that had been sitting for far too long lol

Agreed never give up those three bits of information.

Negotiate the cash price of the car. That will drive payment amount. Once you start talking payments and money down, game over.

I'll foot stomp this point, get your financing lined up first. Dealers will want to match the financing from Credit Union. If you are willing to let the dealer compete on rate, do not give up the rate you got from the Credit Union/Bank.

Dealers make money on the financing. They may quote you a rate of 3.9%, but the dealer is getting a lower rate from the lending institution. Ask the dealer what the buy rate is.

After cash price of car is established, then figure out trade in.

 

[bigmixx]

Absolutely spot on - I always promote this idea to anyone who asks. bigmixx you've laid out why already, but I'd add that, just like any other major appliance like an A/C unit, furnace - you notice that when you absolutely need a car, due it being broken down, etc., the usual thing that happens is you're in crisis and panic mode, and you don't have the freedom to walk away when things aren't in your best interest.

I heard it said before that this is the "broke man's mindset," that you squeeze out every last drop of value from something, and it's waste to throw it away when it "still works," when in fact, one can be better served parting with something that still has value to tap into, while also taking your own time to get into something new. Again, an ideal scenario to be in, but most I figure can.

Yep. Unfortunately my mother is in the situation now where she needs a car. Held on to her car for too long, the engine finally gave up so she needs to get something. She's also nearing retirement so she needs something that can fit her soon to be fixed income. I tried to talk her into getting something new a couple of years ago before the pandemic when things were normal but she didn't budge. Now she has a car with pretty much no value so it's not worth repairing and she can't trade it on the new car. As we know, everything is inflated so she most likely will need to put some cash down to be able to comfortably afford the payment for the next few years.

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