thermostat

[ifly680g]

Ok master tech please explain how swapping a tstat makes more power... you're making the claim as if you're the expert here right? I see plenty of folks saying "it just does" but no one has put any science to it. Here's some research I've found...

http://www.tuneruniversity.com/blog/2012/04/low-temp-thermostats-whats-the-advantage/

http://www.superstreetonline.com/how-to/engine/impp-1001-colder-thermostat-increase-power/

Has anyone here dyno'd their car after swapping their tstat and not messing with fan cycle?

I'm no expert but if you ever watch Nascar during qualifying they hook up a system that pumps cold water through the engine to get it as cool as possible before a second qualifying attempt, as the hot engine wont make as much power resulting in a slower time around the track.
Also cold air is more dense than hot air resulting in higher power, works in jet engines also.

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[Evolvd]

I'm no expert but if you ever watch Nascar during qualifying they hook up a system that pumps cold water through the engine to get it as cool as possible before a second qualifying attempt, as the hot engine wont make as much power resulting in a slower time around the track.
Also cold air is more dense than hot air resulting in higher power, works in jet engines also.

Actually these articles say otherwise. A colder engine is just as destrimental to the life of the metal as a hotter temp. The mass of air moving into an engine is not in the intake long enough to heat soak so ambient temp is way more important for air/fuel mixture than coolant temp. Your analogy is not correct. Btw, I fly airplanes for a living and spent 10 years working on jet engines. Power is determine by ambient air temp and pressure, not the heat of the engine.

 

[Evolvd]

Well condescending smartass, you can find your own answers now. Btw no one is saying it gives more power. People do these to keep from the ecu pulling timing. Which is what i said the first time but you wanted to insist its not correct.Which these cars are sensitive with. :tsk: so keep looking for your answer you wont find. Big hint here. No one cares. They just want to keep it as low as possible to stop from pulling timing.

And like I said, temperature is controlled by the the efficiency of the radiator. The temp controls the thermostat, not the other way around. So you've explained nothing and are now mad that you've been called out. No one has yet proved that swapping thermostats makes power.

ECU timing is based off knock which is directly affected by the air density. Air is a decent insulator from temp change and is affected by pressure. If the air sat in the combustion chamber for awhile then yes it would get hotter. BUT what you fail to acknowledge is that the air is moving so fast through the motor the only thing heating it up is compression and ignition.

It was stated that swapping thermostats improves performance and in this world performance equates to horsepower and torque. I've not seen any proof of the claims made in this thread and have pointed out that I am seeing the exact same temps in my motor with an oem stat as those who've swapped to 160 or 170s.

Your argument is invalid as is your "master technician" status if you disagree with physics and the laws of thermodynamics.

 

[ifly680g]

Actually these articles say otherwise. A colder engine is just as destrimental to the life of the metal as a hotter temp. The mass of air moving into an engine is not in the intake long enough to heat soak so ambient temp is way more important for air/fuel mixture than coolant temp. Your analogy is not correct. Btw, I fly airplanes for a living and spent 10 years working on jet engines. Power is determine by ambient air temp and pressure, not the heat of the engine.

I did say "Also cold air is more dense than hot air resulting in higher power," so I agree it is the air temp, maybe I was not real clear.

Explain why Nascar cools their engines if it makes no difference?

I understand cold is not good for engine wear but the temps we are talking in regards to the different TStats would not have any negative wear I.E 215 degree CHT versus 200 CHT.

I also Fly for a living and have been flying for 40 years. Nice to see a fellow Pilot here BTW. I won't hold the fact that your an A&P against you! Just kidding..

 

[Evolvd]

Cool coolant is what helps a hot motor make more power. A cooler tstat helps the radiator allow for more efficient cooling.

That makes no sense. A thermostat does not cool, the radiator does. And an engine under load is cycling water constantly so the only thing working under load is the radiator and fans.

Some folks want to bash me because they refuse to acknowledge the laws of thermodynamics.

 

[mustang_guy]

And like I said, temperature is controlled by the the efficiency of the radiator. The temp controls the thermostat, not the other way around. So you've explained nothing and are now mad that you've been called out. No one has yet proved that swapping thermostats makes power.

ECU timing is based off knock which is directly affected by the air density. Air is a decent insulator from temp change and is affected by pressure. If the air sat in the combustion chamber for awhile then yes it would get hotter. BUT what you fail to acknowledge is that the air is moving so fast through the motor the only thing heating it up is compression and ignition.

It was stated that swapping thermostats improves performance and in this world performance equates to horsepower and torque. I've not seen any proof of the claims made in this thread and have pointed out that I am seeing the exact same temps in my motor with an oem stat as those who've swapped to 160 or 170s.

Your argument is invalid as is your "master technician" status if you disagree with physics and the laws of thermodynamics.

Im aware how a cooling system works. No one is mad. You're just not going to get help from someone when you want to be a dick. Your argument is invalid. No body generally sees those temps stock when beating on it or on a daily basis. This isn't a super scientific, technical thread. You want to argue and mince over words. The tstat works to keep the temps in check to stop the ecu from pulling timing. Buy one or dont.

 

[mustang_guy]

That makes no sense. A thermostat does not cool, the radiator does. And an engine under load is cycling water constantly so the only thing working under load is the radiator and fans.

Some folks want to bash me because they refuse to acknowledge the laws of thermodynamics.

The problem is youre trying to be technical and argue over wording. Get over it.

 

[Evolvd]

I did say "Also cold air is more dense than hot air resulting in higher power," so I agree it is the air temp, maybe I was not real clear.

Explain why Nascar cools their engines if it makes no difference?

I understand cold is not good for engine wear but the temps we are talking in regards to the different TStats would not have any negative wear I.E 215 degree CHT versus 200 CHT.

I also Fly for a living and have been flying for 40 years. Nice to see a fellow Pilot here BTW. I won't hold the fact that your an A&P against you! Just kidding..

I honestly have no idea why NASCAR does anything as I hate redneck racing lol. And my original question was in relation to swapping thermostats and getting lower temps when the temp is controlled by the efficiency of the radiator. This isn't rocket science either. I've already seen that having a 160 or 170 stat gives the same CHT that I have with stock. So I'm calling "snake oil sales pitch" until someone can prove otherwise with some actual data instead of "because I said so".

No worries about the A&P thing, I got smarter and decided to break airplanes instead of fixing them lol

 

[Evolvd]

The problem is youre trying to be technical and argue over wording. Get over it.

So if I came in here saying "x-brand part makes more power it is more efficient" and show nothing to back it up you wouldn't question it? You're bent because I asked for proof and no one has shown any.

 

[mustang_guy]

So if I came in here saying "x-brand part makes more power it is more efficient" and show nothing to back it up you wouldn't question it? You're bent because I asked for proof and no one has shown any.

See there you are assuming again. Im not bent. The problem is youre adding tone to text that isnt there. There has been proof of which works better. Evo and gsx has posted their findings. Higs will post his eventually. The proof is the Reische lowers the temps better. Did you even know ford doesnt even test these cars on an engine dyno with the tstat they supply with the car? :lol: its known ford tests at lower temps. Like i said buy one or dont. The Reische has shown to lower temps better. If you like youre car pulling timing when it reaches a certain temp, stick with what you have.

 

[Evolvd]

Oh I see, the problem is me, not that no one in here so far has shown a data log of timing, dyno runs, or any other data that proves the thermostat alone makes power. Where is this proof you speak of, or are you going to just take your word for it?

Once again, anyone care to explain how a thermostat lowers temps when the radiator is the heat exchanger?

 

[evo8904]

I honestly have no idea why NASCAR does anything as I hate redneck racing lol. And my original question was in relation to swapping thermostats and getting lower temps when the temp is controlled by the efficiency of the radiator. This isn't rocket science either. I've already seen that having a 160 or 170 stat gives the same CHT that I have with stock. So I'm calling "snake oil sales pitch" until someone can prove otherwise with some actual data instead of "because I said so".

No worries about the A&P thing, I got smarter and decided to break airplanes instead of fixing them lol

The bold statement above is wrong. The Reische 170 will lower your cht significantly more than the Evenflo 160 or stock thermostat. Look at the pictures posted by me on the first few pages. There are others who have posted the results of the Reische 170 too.

 

[Jeff's FRC]

And my original question was in relation to swapping thermostats and getting lower temps when the temp is controlled by the efficiency of the radiator. I've already seen that having a 160 or 170 stat gives the same CHT that I have with stock.

Im no thermonucleardynamics engineer, but even if you have the most efficient radiator in the world, the thermostat will CONTROL what temp the coolant is inside the engine. Now if you have a radiator that couldn't keep up with the cooling demands of your vehicle, then yes, the thermostat will be open and at that point the radiator would be CONTROLLING the temp of the coolant. Maybe I misunderstood you, but a radiator is the heat exchanger and the thermostat would be the control valve.

You also say that you've already seen that having a 160/170 stat gives the same temps with your stock stat. So I'm understanding that you've tested a lower temp stat on your car?

 

[Jeff's FRC]

Once again, anyone care to explain how a thermostat lowers temps when the radiator is the heat exchanger?

lol, are you serious? Why even have a thermostat at all with that logic!!!

 

[Evolvd]

Im no thermonucleardynamics engineer, but even if you have the most efficient radiator in the world, the thermostat will CONTROL what temp the coolant is inside the engine. Now if you have a radiator that couldn't keep up with the cooling demands of your vehicle, then yes, the thermostat will be open and at that point the radiator would be CONTROLLING the temp of the coolant. Maybe I misunderstood you, but a radiator is the heat exchanger and the thermostat would be the control valve.

You also say that you've already seen that having a 160/170 stat gives the same temps with your stock stat. So I'm understanding that you've tested a lower temp stat on your car?

Nope, comparing my stock numbers with info posted in this thread. As I already stated, I see 190's all day long and as high as 210-215 when sitting at idle.

And you're wrong, the thermostat does not "control" temp. It keeps the fluid from leaving the engine until it has reached it designed operating temp. So when the fluid gets to 160 the valve opens and let's the fluid flow into the radiator and stays open as long as the motor is heating the fluid above 160. The motor still gets to 190+ as stated by every person in this thread. So, how does that help a motor that still runs at 190+ CHT?

I swear y'all are arguing just to prove yourselves wrong

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