The Down and Dirty ADM Thread

[Todd15Fastback]

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[stanglife]

OP, you've got me pretty confused. Didn't you just post this 3 days ago?

I need an R, ADM $7500 max.

While I agree with some of what you say, this comes off just a little bitter sounding. If you're right (and you could be!) - wouldn't you just wait a little while so that you could buy one at peanuts instead of offering to pay $7500 ADM, now?

 

[MCarsFan]

OP, you've got me pretty confused. Didn't you just post this 3 days ago?



While I agree with some of what you say, this comes off just a little bitter sounding. If you're right (and you could be!) - wouldn't you just wait a little while so that you could buy one at peanuts instead of offering to pay $7500 ADM, now?

I am sick of this nonsense and the general ford dealer attitude. Couple that with typical wasteful and irresponsible 21st century spending, it looks like I am not getting an R anytime soon.

 

[OW_GT350R]

And one more thing, any of the greedy dealers out there reading this? Go #%^* yourselves for making this car unreachable to general public. You are disgusting. The entire point of shelby was that it was an "affordable car" for average american car enthusiasts. You should be ashamed of yourselves. Greed greed greed. What people do to make money. Whatever happened to pride, dignity, and being humble?

I would ask you this. What happened to selling something for what it is worth? Why are suddenly being chastised for correcting the market on these cars? Lastly, if you feel this strongly about "MSRP", you should never ask a dealer to accept less for their cars than sticker.

 

[Hack]

Just to point a few facts here which are very obvious to me but is clearly not to most people here and a lot of people who pay ADMs:

- A car's "manufacturers suggested retail price" already includes a massive 5-9% profit above the invoice.
- On top of this dealers have various service agreements or kickbacks which allow them to make more profit.
- MORE IMPORTANTLY, a recession is pretty much imminent. This has been the longest growth period for the markets in 150 years. Usually US markets correct themselves every 7 years (current period has exceeded 9). Fed is increasing rates and my personal opinion is they are doing this because when recession hits, they want to be able to decrease them again to give the economy breathing room. All of these are very obvious indications that a recession is around the corner. It doesnt require an economist with a PhD in math and economy to figure this out.
- After the next recession, your R or the base 350 will be worth peanuts compared to how much you paid. Aside from a few of you out here who have deep holes on their pockets and who own 6 cars 5 of which are ferraris and porsches, if you are middle class or upple middle class, you are WASTING your money paying ADMs.

BE SMART, DONT DO ANYTHING STUPID, AND WAIT. Those ADMs on these cars, especially the R will come down.

Remember what happened to 997 GT3RS when recession hit? That car was going above 200k which ADMs higher than shelby and suddenly people were selling theirs in panic for 90k. And you think Mustang will hold its ADM value better than a Porsche GT3RS? THINK AGAIN.

"Your welcome" for opening your eyes

And one more thing, any of the greedy dealers out there reading this? Go #%^* yourselves for making this car unreachable to general public. You are disgusting. The entire point of shelby was that it was an "affordable car" for average american car enthusiasts. You should be ashamed of yourselves. Greed greed greed. What people do to make money. Whatever happened to pride, dignity, and being humble?

Boo hoo.

 

[MCarsFan]

Do you guys all work for dealers? I am beginning to think there are bunch of "internet sales" people here sneaking around posing like they are just the buyer side....

Actually go ahead and pay 40-50k ADM for R, when recession hits again, smart people will grab them for below sticker.

We, as in the consumer, control the market demand. Manufacturers control supply. If everyone here collectively decides to stay put and put their 1st world car itch issues aside for a few months, dealers will come back to reality.

Same thing happened with the GT3s multiple times:

- Recession hit and they went kaboom from 200k to 90k.
- Markets went up and the metzger GT3s went up to 150-160k because they are "manual" transmission.
- Guess what, what was once 160k now goes for 90-100k. Because people said fuck it.

There are only 300-500 of these cars being made every year. YOU control the market, not dealers. Everyone thinks they are just one person and how can one person influence the market conditions? Well you start one person at a time and build from there. If everyone in this forum and their friends outside of forum collectively decided to stay put, the ADMs would come down to reasonable levels.

One LAST point....

A car like 991 GT3RS which commands 50k ADM right now is targeted for an entirely different market than that of for shelby mustang. People who can afford to pay 200k for an RS have enough money to pay 50k more. Same isnt true for shelby. The markups are always relative percentage values with respect to the full msrp. If RS commands a 20-25% ADM, how can shelby command almost over 100% ADM? Who comes up with this idiotic pricing model? Most people who buy mustangs dont make high 6 figures, the point of shelby mustang is that its an affordable track car for the price of a 6 figure exotic - affordable being the key word here. So where is the logic in this?

 

[ThreeFiveO]

Wow! Two entire posts without praising the almighty M5. You're getting the hang of this!

 

[MCarsFan]

Wow! Two entire posts without praising the almighty M5. You're getting the hang of this!

What does my M5 have to do with what I said?

I understand most of you paid ADMs already and my line of thinking may sound upsetting, but no need to attack me personally. Attack my line of thinking and have an intellectual argument instead of childish one.

 

[OW_GT350R]

What does my M5 have to do with what I said?

I understand most of you paid ADMs already and my line of thinking may sound upsetting, but no need to attack me personally. Attack my line of thinking and have an intellectual argument instead of childish one.

You seemed to have glossed over my question to you, so I will ask again as you seem intent on MSRP being the "actual value" of a car. If you feel this strongly about ADM, then I suspect that you will never again try to negotiate a price below MSRP for a vehicle you purchase. You ask for an intellectual argument, but you only want to discuss certain points. That isn't how it works. Well, are you a politician???

You keep referencing it as if it is the end all be all for pricing. It is the Manufacturers suggestion. Nothing more, nothing less. The market and people's level of expendable income will determine the actual value. I will guarantee you right now that if Ford Corporate came out today and raised the "MSRP" of the GT350R to $10K over what it is today, then stated that any dealer marking up or down would lose their allocations, every single '17 GT350R will sell in less than a week(even the '16's still on lots would).

That being the case, trends would clearly indicate that the car is worth close to $80K to consumers.

And again, please answer this, since you are so hung up on MSRP, will you never try to negotiate a price below MSRP again?

 

[GT_Dave]

Do you guys all work for dealers? I am beginning to think there are bunch of "internet sales" people here sneaking around posing like they are just the buyer side....

A car like 991 GT3RS which commands 50k ADM right now is targeted for an entirely different market than that of for shelby mustang. People who can afford to pay 200k for an RS have enough money to pay 50k more. Same isnt true for Shelby.

I do not understand your logic here in regards to how certain cars are targeted for market segments, either you can afford to buy a vehicle at the going market price or you cannot. It certainly does not matter who the manufacturer or what the product is, and for me that applies to everything.
As for anyone thinking they can affect the market for a car that will sell 500 units per year spread across the entire NA continent in a short period of time, is just plain stupidity.
I have never purchased a car with the notion of it being an investment and I never will. I expect to take a loss as soon as I drive it off the dealers lot. I buy them for a purpose and hang on to them. Sure I paid an ADM for my GT350, and I think I got an excellent deal on the car, that is all that should matter to anyone!!

 

[keltykid350]

One LAST point....

QUOTE]

:clap2:

 

[raiderjatt02]

I just can't wrap my head around how worked up some people get about how OTHER people spend their own money. I you don't agree with ADM, don't pay it. Wait for an MSRP deal and hope you find one. There are people out there that don't give a shit about resale value or don't want to buy used a few years down the road. We want our cars now, brand new, ordered to our specs, have no interest in ever selling it, so we don't mind paying ADM.

 

[MCarsFan]

I just can't wrap my head around how worked up some people get about how OTHER people spend their own money. I you don't agree with ADM, don't pay it. Wait for an MSRP deal and hope you find one. There are people out there that don't give a shit about resale value or don't want to buy used a few years down the road. We want our cars now, brand new, ordered to our specs, have no interest in ever selling it, so we don't mind paying ADM.

We are not worked up. We are trying to teach some fucking sense into people, but being illiterate is so dangerous and so hard to overcome, I dont think there is any point. If those ADM payers actually stood their ground, we all would collectively benefit from this. It is so wrong and they are being played.

Its the same kind of mentality of people who "have to have" their iphone in September every year because they have to have "the latest". Apple will charge them $300 for a phone that costs them $97 to build, heck, if Apple slap them on face and fart, they would still smile, look the other way, in fact pay markup so that they can have their gold phone.

When did we forget our core values? When did we become so material oriented? What happened to the good old thinking? I cannot believe a Ford Mustang is going for over 100% of its retail value. I am sorry, I love the car and its engine, but this is a mustang. It is not a Ferrari, it is not a gt3rs, it is not a 40 year old classic. This car is meant to be reachable by average middle class working american.

 

[OW_GT350R]

We are not worked up. We are trying to teach some fucking sense into people, but being illiterate is so dangerous and so hard to overcome, I dont think there is any point. If those ADM payers actually stood their ground, we all would collectively benefit from this. It is so wrong and they are being played.

Its the same kind of mentality of people who "have to have" their iphone in September every year because they have to have "the latest". Apple will charge them $300 for a phone that costs them $97 to build, heck, if Apple slap them on face and fart, they would still smile, look the other way, in fact pay markup so that they can have their gold phone.

When did we forget our core values? When did we become so material oriented? What happened to the good old thinking? I cannot believe a Ford Mustang is going for over 100% of its retail value. I am sorry, I love the car and its engine, but this is a mustang. It is not a Ferrari, it is not a gt3rs, it is not a 40 year old classic. This car is meant to be reachable by average middle class working american.

Please explain to me how a car that has less than 1000 produced in 3 years is supposed to be reachable by the average middle class working American? If that was the case, do you not think they would have made 25,000 in those 3 years?

And the iPhone comment is laughable. Based on that comment, you should never question another person's ability to comprehend anything. How is Apple's stock doing right now? How is the market for iPhones? Why is it so bad? Maybe because the company is losing the image of constant innovation. Maybe their product is stale.

Those 2 traits are the exact opposite of what Ford has done with the GT350R. You are making the argument for why the value is actually more than the MSRP. At least you are starting to see things more clearly now.

 

[swedensky]

You seemed to have glossed over my question to you, so I will ask again as you seem intent on MSRP being the "actual value" of a car. If you feel this strongly about ADM, then I suspect that you will never again try to negotiate a price below MSRP for a vehicle you purchase.

And again, please answer this, since you are so hung up on MSRP, will you never try to negotiate a price below MSRP again?

Um.

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