Test drove 2016 2SS Camaro today compared to Mustang GT

[bluebeastsrt]

What were the mods though? Slicks for sure hahaha. Y'all trapped the same, but you killed him in the 60.

Mods are intake, flex tune and converter. Stock exhaust. Converter doesn't make power. It just makes better use of the power you have. The car went 11.78 with those mods the same night of this video. I've since added long tubes and XPipe and expect to go 11.5-11.6. In good air. The SS driver in the video is a friend. He was trying to get to number one on his fast list for the M6. I think he could have went low 12s stock. Which is pretty impressive for a stick car. He went 12.4 in summer heat. He gave up before the good air hit atco and bolted a set of M/Ts on. And he's going to start modding the SS.

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[Hack]

Just kind of weird. He said he tested a 2017 GTPP and 15 LE, back to back, and he felt so at home with the Mustang, he bought the exact same one? Not saying he didn't test them back to back, just sounds really weird.

I drove my 2011 GT to the Chevy dealer and test drove a 2015 1LE. I was completely underwhelmed. The magazines and Chevy guys acted like it was so amazing. I didn't see it. I wanted to buy one just to have something different for a while, but I couldn't pull the trigger.

True story.

 

[mustang_guy]

The only guy in this thread who has credibility on claiming that performance doesn't matter is Ecovert since he bought the fattest Mustang with the little engine. The rental special cars are nice enough but not a performance car.

The guys clinging to the idea that the Mustang automatically wins when it comes to mod vs mod are sounding pretty desperate. Go ahead and add that $7k supercharger to keep up...and you still have a car that's more expensive than a 1SS, 300 pounds heavier on an inferior suspension and a transmission that is at risk for breaking second/third gear with a decent tire.

The LT-1 has only been available since 2014. If you think the aftermarket won't support this motor, you're smoking something and it's not tires.

There are plenty of great reasons to pick a Mustang over a Camaro. The arguments here only make sense in the context of this forum. Anyone who isn't part of this community probably won't be swayed by the points made here.

get back to me when an lt1 runs 6s let alone 8s on stock engines. It is no contest. You have absolutely no idea what youre saying. Hell get back to me when an ls engine runs 5s. The 4.6 dohc says hello.

 

[EcoVert]

The only guy in this thread who has credibility on claiming that performance doesn't matter is Ecovert since he bought the fattest Mustang with the little engine. The rental special cars are nice enough but not a performance car.

Damn somebody's got the camaro troll fired up. And yes the Mustang wins because 99% of the people buying these cars aren't magazine racers like some here and really don't care what magazine's write. :ford:

 

[Chad11491]

C&D

SS Auto Loaded: 3,760
GT PP Loaded: 3,810

I don't have pics, so people will probably call BS, but my 15 GT premium PP (no other options like adaptive cruise control, sub, or anything at all. JUST the premium and pp) with an ARH catback, airaid CAI (not sure if that is lighter than stock box), and GF9 19x9.5 wheels and 275/40r19 PSS's weighed in at 366X lb with a little under 3/4 tank of gas. I guess if you flooded the car with options it would add up. It's so easy to strip weight off these cars. If I end up getting 2 piece rotors eventually that's another 30is lbs of rotating mass off for all 4. I wish the new camaros were selling better so I could run them for a comparison more often. As is it's surprising when I actually see one on the road.

 

[thatmustang609]

https://flic.kr/p/LQJqbr https://www.flickr.com/photos/146710440@N03/

 

[MRGTX]

Good to know that the weight differential between the Mustang and the Camaro was closer than I had heard...but that doesn't explain why they're no quicker than a 3700lb S197 with so many improvements to the motor.

Can anyone explain that? Either they're lying about the engine output or there are some serious losses with the extra CV joints...which seems unlikely.

Maybe the old Coyote and the new LT-1 are more potent than advertised?

I'm probably not buying a Camaro...all I can say is that there was no comparison between how the 2015 GTPP drove and how the Camaro 1SS drove. That's a subjective opinion which you're free to disagree with...most professional reviewers agree with me, the Mustang continues to sell better...who cares? Buy the one you like best.

I don't own stock in either company, nor is my personal identity tied to any corporate brand. That makes me a troll, I guess.

Some of you guys drove both, genuinely preferred the Mustang to the Camaro. That's totally legitimate and I don't blame you. I think they each have serious pros and cons.

Some of you guys bought the Mustang, before the Camaro came out, took the depreciation hit, were pissed by the reviews of the Camaro and now have to look for reasons to say that the Mustang is better. I get that. That's human nature.

Some of you guys plan to mod and so far, yeah, the bottom end on the newest version of the Coyote appears to be amazing...so far the Ford is leading in this category.

Life is way too short to get emotional over this stuff, guys. Save your hate for bigots or criminals. We're all muscle car fans here.

 

[Todd15Fastback]

Good to know that the weight differential between the Mustang and the Camaro was closer than I had heard...but that doesn't explain why they're no quicker than a 3700lb S197 with so many improvements to the motor.

Can anyone explain that? Either they're lying about the engine output or there are some serious losses with the extra CV joints...which seems unlikely.

Maybe the old Coyote and the new LT-1 are more potent than advertised?

I'm probably not buying a Camaro...all I can say is that there was no comparison between how the 2015 GTPP drove and how the Camaro 1SS drove. That's a subjective opinion which you're free to disagree with...most professional reviewers agree with me, the Mustang continues to sell better...who cares? Buy the one you like best.

I don't own stock in either company, nor is my personal identity tied to any corporate brand. That makes me a troll, I guess.

Some of you guys drove both, genuinely preferred the Mustang to the Camaro. That's totally legitimate and I don't blame you. I think they each have serious pros and cons.

Some of you guys bought the Mustang, before the Camaro came out, took the depreciation hit, were pissed by the reviews of the Camaro and now have to look for reasons to say that the Mustang is better. I get that. That's human nature.

Some of you guys plan to mod and so far, yeah, the bottom end on the newest version of the Coyote appears to be amazing...so far the Ford is leading in this category.

Life is way too short to get emotional over this stuff, guys. Save your hate for bigots or criminals. We're all muscle car fans here.

Where do you come up with some of this stuff? I don't care if the new 6G Camaro ran 10 seconds flat in the .25 mile at 140mph. Pulled 1.4Gs on the skidpad. No way, no how, will I be seen in a new generation Camaro. I think they are ugly and they do ZERO for me in stimulating my car love. Performance is great right off the showroom floor.

A 1973 split bumper like below? Sign me up. I would drive that in a nanosecond. The new Gran Sport Corvette, yep, sign me up. Previous generation CTS-V, yep, sign me up.

 

[MRGTX]

Where do you come up with some of this stuff? I don't care if the new 6G Camaro ran 10 seconds flat in the .25 mile at 140mph. Pulled 1.4Gs on the skidpad. No way, no how, will I be seen in a new generation Camaro. I think they are ugly and they do ZERO for me in stimulating my car love. Performance is great right off the showroom floor.
...

Why do you take everything so personally? Your skin is thinner than President Trump's! :lol:

Where do I come up with this stuff? People feel this way with every kind of expensive consumer product when something newer and shinier comes out!

For example, I'm still making arguments as to why I'd rather have the oil squirters in my Coyote than the coated pistons (per the 2013 Coyote update). Deep down, I know Ford wouldn't have made the change if it wasn't a net improvement...but still! :headbonk:

You seem to prefer your car to the Camaro regardless. I don't doubt it and I'm happy for you. It sucks to be on the other side of this situation, as we all are at some point.

 

[1320']

Good to know that the weight differential between the Mustang and the Camaro was closer than I had heard...but that doesn't explain why they're no quicker than a 3700lb S197 with so many improvements to the motor. The new Coyote only picked up 15 horsepower and 10 ft lb's of torque..it allowed it to keep par, roughly, with the S197 while dramatically increasing handling and refinement (this came with about 75lbs more weight, too).

Can anyone explain that? Either they're lying about the engine output or there are some serious losses with the extra CV joints...which seems unlikely. See above

Maybe the old Coyote and the new LT-1 are more potent than advertised?
No, they're within 3% of their SAE rated numbers, because they're SAE certified.

.

My responses in bold.

The Coyote was at 420HP and 390 TQ in the 2013-2014 cars. With the 2015 you saw it go to 435/400..so the jump wasn't that much. The Mustang also picked up at least 75lbs with the generation change. Essentially Ford added just enough power to compensate for the extra pork. They stated they wanted to keep the straight line performance roughly the same while improving everything else, which they did (in spades).

The S197 platform was about as light as you could get for as inexpensively done as possible. It's a GREAT platform, fyi..with basic modifications, mostly in the suspension, it is every bit the top of the list in cars within $20,000 of it's price point.

The S550 platform itself lost weight over the S197, but those weight savings were gobbled up by heavier components. The IRS assembly (rear subframe, pumpkin, shocks, halfshafts and hub assembly, whole thing) is around 125lbs than the SRA of the S197.

The base brakes are the same size as the outgoing brembo pack cars and the S550 GT has a power passenger seat as well, where the last of the S197 GT's had manual seats on both sides.

My point is..that the S550 became a massively better car, in every way, and kept the performance the same (roughly) as the outgoing car it replaced, which already was a VERY light car.

 

[bluebeastsrt]

Not real sure why you guys haven't put the troll on ignore yet? Dudes only purpose here is to pull on S550 owners chains.

 

[MRGTX]

My responses in bold.

The Coyote was at 420HP and 390 TQ in the 2013-2014 cars. With the 2015 you saw it go to 435/400..so the jump wasn't that much. The Mustang also picked up at least 75lbs with the generation change. Essentially Ford added just enough power to compensate for the extra pork. They stated they wanted to keep the straight line performance roughly the same while improving everything else, which they did (in spades).

The S197 platform was about as light as you could get for as inexpensively done as possible. It's a GREAT platform, fyi..with basic modifications, mostly in the suspension, it is every bit the top of the list in cars within $20,000 of it's price point.

The S550 platform itself lost weight over the S197, but those weight savings were gobbled up by heavier components. The IRS assembly (rear subframe, pumpkin, shocks, halfshafts and hub assembly, whole thing) is around 125lbs than the SRA of the S197.

The base brakes are the same size as the outgoing brembo pack cars and the S550 GT has a power passenger seat as well, where the last of the S197 GT's had manual seats on both sides.

My point is..that the S550 became a massively better car, in every way, and kept the performance the same (roughly) as the outgoing car it replaced, which already was a VERY light car.

That's solid explanation and that all sounds correct and there's no doubt that the suspension and chassis are vastly improved...but something still doesn't add up.

The first Coyote powered cars had 412hp... let's say you had a really light S197GT at 3600lbs flat, (which probably wouldn't be the case with any of the cars sporting the largest available 255/40/19 Pirelli PZero summer-only tires on the heavy BBP wheels!)...This best case scenario gives you a 8.73 lb/hp ratio...

So the an S550 has more tire and a better power:weight ratio...and it's still slower in the quarter mile? How? They should be quicker, not slower. Is it possibly due to the the slight torque:weight disadvantage?

3600 lbs/412hp = 8.73 lbs/hp
3600 lbs/390 lb-ft=9.23 lbs/lb-ft of torque

3750 lbs/435hp = 8.62 lbs/hp
3750 lbs/400 lb-ft= 9.375 lbs/lb-ft of torque

 

[1320']

Well...

A lot of the really, really fast Coyote 197's were base automatics (3.15 FGR) with the 235 tires on 18's. So you had roughly the same tire on the same wheel, yet more weight. Also, those blistering fast times (the 12.3X 1/4 times in the 113+ range) had drag radials on the back (so called "tire only" runs), so that negated the skinny crappy stock tires by putting beefy 285+ wide DR's on it.

The GTPP's, which is the model the vast majority of magazine testers used, does have more tire, but also is geared very poorly for 1/4 mile racing. The 3.73's are a bit too steep for a good drag run, the 3.55 set is the best for a M6 car rowing gears due to not needing an extra shift.

Gearing and weight are the culprits behind the fact that the manual S550's aren't faster than the S197's, the automatics are largely within a tenth or 1.5 tenths of the S197 autos.

 

[bluebeastsrt]

Well...

A lot of the really, really fast Coyote 197's were base automatics (3.15 FGR) with the 235 tires on 18's. So you had roughly the same tire on the same wheel, yet more weight. Also, those blistering fast times (the 12.3X 1/4 times in the 113+ range) had drag radials on the back (so called "tire only" runs), so that negated the skinny crappy stock tires by putting beefy 285+ wide DR's on it.

The GTPP's, which is the model the vast majority of magazine testers used, does have more tire, but also is geared very poorly for 1/4 mile racing. The 3.73's are a bit too steep for a good drag run, the 3.55 set is the best for a M6 car rowing gears due to not needing an extra shift.

Gearing and weight are the culprits behind the fact that the manual S550's aren't faster than the S197's, the automatics are largely within a tenth or 1.5 tenths of the S197 autos.

I can't really comment on the manual S550s. Haven't owned a manual since the SRT-4 first came out. But my 2011 Auto GT with 3.15 gears ran almost identical times to my 2015 Auto GT with 3.55 gears. The interwebs is full of nonsense. There are guys that swore that the 3.15 geared cars are faster because that's what they have. The S197 crowd want's to believe they have a faster car because of solid axle and being a few pounds lighter. Despite their engine making less power. People that have never been to the strip will say. "Well it just feels faster". I don't know about you but my but dyno cant detect a few tenths or a couple mile per hour.:shrug:

 

[1320']

I can't really comment on the manual S550s. Haven't owned a manual since the SRT-4 first came out. But my 2011 Auto GT with 3.15 gears ran almost identical times to my 2015 Auto GT with 3.55 gears. The interwebs is full of nonsense. There are guys that swore that the 3.15 geared cars are faster because that's what they have. The S197 crowd want's to believe they have a faster car because of solid axle and being a few pounds lighter. Despite their engine making less power. People that have never been to the strip will say. "Well it just feels faster". I don't know about you but my but dyno cant detect a few tenths or a couple mile per hour.:shrug:

No, you're right...I've not dragged a S550 yet, all my experiences are with a 2011 S197 GT auto that a buddy had that we built up for bracket racing.

I was only providing my limited observation of the situation at that time, I have (sadly) no real world exerpeince with the S550 yet.

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