Sway bars

[Roadway 5.0]

I put together a chart...

This is awesome. Thanks for taking the time to put this and the spring wheel rate chart together. It looks like in my case, the rear bar at soft or medium is good (as far as rates are concerned), but full stiff (239) will exceed my ultralites' spring wheel rate (213) which is certainly not good. Proof is in the pudding and I appreciate the data.

-----------------------------------------
For those reading through this thread, here's the link to the spring wheel rates that was above mentioned:

https://www.mustang6g.com/forums/th...s-all-in-one-thread.44925/page-8#post-1637308

Sponsored

 

[BmacIL]

This is awesome. Thanks for taking the time to put this and the spring wheel rate chart together. It looks like in my case, the rear bar at soft or medium is good (as far as rates are concerned), but full stiff (239) will exceed my ultralites' spring wheel rate (213) which is certainly not good. Proof is in the pudding and I appreciate the data.

-----------------------------------------
For those reading through this thread, here's the link to the spring wheel rates that was above mentioned:

https://www.mustang6g.com/forums/th...s-all-in-one-thread.44925/page-8#post-1637308

I'd still strongly suggest soft unless you change to a much stiffer front spring or front bar. Remember, it takes a lot less stiffness to induce significant oversteer than to lift the tire. The exact number depends on so many variables, but given that Steeda's bar is stiffer than the rest by a significant amount, I'd probably never go above soft.

 

[Bluemustang]

I'd still strongly suggest soft unless you change to a much stiffer front spring or front bar. Remember, it takes a lot less stiffness to induce significant oversteer than to lift the tire. The exact number depends on so many variables, but given that Steeda's bar is stiffer than the rest by a significant amount, I'd probably never go above soft.

I agree. I would even suggest going to a softer bar. Based on these values the Steeda bar 228% stiffer than OEM PP.

Because of the amount of power this car has (and large, heavy RWD), it can be induced into oversteer no matter what if you really try. The stiffer rear bar is only hurting you IMO. I'm of the belief now that no one needs a stiffer rear bar. If any increase in bar stiffness is needed it's in the front not the rear.

 

[BmacIL]

I'm of the belief now that no one needs a stiffer rear bar.

If you have one of the popular high end coilover setups with 500+ lb springs, you may. On a McPherson strut car like this, those rates actually don't make the car understeer drastically, but the car will be more tolerant of high rear bar rate because the front controls the body motion so much.

 

[Bluemustang]

If you have one of the popular high end coilover setups with 500+ lb springs, you may. On a McPherson strut car like this, those rates actually don't make the car understeer drastically, but the car will be more tolerant of high rear bar rate because the front controls the body motion so much.

That is a good point, and I didn't think of that. I probably shouldn't have said "no one" because that is misleading and inaccurate. I should amend that to say "most people" i.e. folks running traditional spring/shock combos for street/light track/autocross.

 

[Roadway 5.0]

I'd still strongly suggest soft unless you change to a much stiffer front spring or front bar. Remember, it takes a lot less stiffness to induce significant oversteer than to lift the tire. The exact number depends on so many variables, but given that Steeda's bar is stiffer than the rest by a significant amount, I'd probably never go above soft.

I'm already back to full soft, so advice acknowledged and accepted. When I get my summer wheels and tires on I still may consider going to medium though. I can feel the front tires want to give-way, before the rears even grunt, in an aggressive sharp turn with the bar on soft, and that's on winter tires in the cold. I suppose it's best to have a bit of understeer versus over, so maybe it will stay at this setting. Good thing it's a 20 minute change to experiment or the wife would probably murder me (or set fire to the car).

 

[Roadway 5.0]

The stiffer rear bar is only hurting you IMO.

Obvious from this discussion is that I have a different train of thought. From my view, going stiff on the front bar (and not altering the rear) reduces rotation, pushes the car in turns, and (if stiff enough) reduces traction to the wheels that steer. This makes me much more nervous than sliding out from oversteer when throttling out of a turn. My driving style is to drive deep in a turn anyway, and finesse the exit until my next line is a straight one.

At the end of the day it's different strokes for different folks. The data in this thread, however, is refining just how stiff I go.

 

[BmacIL]

Obvious from this discussion is that I have a different train of thought. From my view, going stiff on the front bar (and not altering the rear) reduces rotation, pushes the car in turns, and (if stiff enough) reduces traction to the wheels that steer. This makes me much more nervous than sliding out from oversteer when throttling out of a turn. My driving style is to drive deep in a turn anyway, and finesse the exit until my next line is a straight one.

At the end of the day it's different strokes for different folks. The data in this thread, however, is refining just how stiff I go.

Classically this is true, but because of how a McPherson strut suspension works, and because how how heavy this car is, it isn't. It took me a while to understand because I was used to looking cars with front SLA setups that respond much more conventionally. Keeping the front of the S550 flat will improve front grip.

 

[NightmareMoon]

I agree. I would even suggest going to a softer bar. Based on these values the Steeda bar 228% stiffer than OEM PP.

Because of the amount of power this car has (and large, heavy RWD), it can be induced into oversteer no matter what if you really try. The stiffer rear bar is only hurting you IMO. I'm of the belief now that no one needs a stiffer rear bar. If any increase in bar stiffness is needed it's in the front not the rear.

Thats one of the reasons I like this Strano rear bar so much. Its about the perfect increase on Medium and Soft is stock-ish. Paired with a BMR/Steeda/Whiteline front bar on medium and the car dances really well and retains a lot of grip powering out of corners.

 

[Bluemustang]

Thats one of the reasons I like this Strano rear bar so much. Its about the perfect increase on Medium and Soft is stock-ish. Paired with a BMR/Steeda/Whiteline front bar on medium and the car dances really well and retains a lot of grip powering out of corners.

Very nice, I like it!

 

[BmacIL]

Very nice, I like it!

This is kinda what I was telling you about diameter vs wall thickness. The Strano bar is solid, IIRC, but still 22.2 mm like stock. The soft position gives the arm more leverage on the bar than stock, but on a slightly stiffer bar, so you end up with stock-ish.

 

[Bluemustang]

This is kinda what I was telling you about diameter vs wall thickness. The Strano bar is solid, IIRC, but still 22.2 mm like stock. The soft position gives the arm more leverage on the bar than stock, but on a slightly stiffer bar, so you end up with stock-ish.

Very cool design IMO. I've heard of a number of people running this.

 

[NightmareMoon]

I put together a chart that shows the bar rates (published and tested), and the effective wheel rate of the bars. You can add those wheel rates to the spring wheel rates published on Page 8 of the Spring rates sticky thread. This will allow you to see total roll stiffness and bar stiffness contribution to the total. I do not have Steeda front bar rates yet. View attachment 351548

Link to the spring rates:
https://www.mustang6g.com/forums/th...s-all-in-one-thread.44925/page-8#post-1637308

Can we repost this in it’s own thread and sticky it?

 

[NightmareMoon]

I figure the Strano rear set on medium is probably similar to a GT350R rear bar.

 

[BmacIL]

I figure the Strano rear set on medium is probably similar to a GT350R rear bar.

I can run a Calc to see. You're probably right.

Sponsored