Starter woes 2.0

[honeybadger]

Which PowerMaster did you get? Any installation notes other than clocking it? I'm tired of waiting on my dealer's badly backed up service department which has had my car in twice and has been "unable to replicate."

I am using the Powermaster 9532. It is a bit rough to get off/on due to the way I clocked it to maximize distance from the long tubes. You actually have to put one of the bolts in before you clock it and the wrench it in by hand. (see below). To rotate, you remove the little socket cap screws and rotate the base. It's easy enough.

I should also note, in my orientation, the wires face the block , so again, a ratcheting wrench is your friend. It's not super user friendly, but then nothing about starters on coyotes are.

I have high hopes for it so far, though. It's incredibly robust and starts the engine right up.

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[ChipG]

I am using the Powermaster 9532. It is a bit rough to get off/on due to the way I clocked it to maximize distance from the long tubes. You actually have to put one of the bolts in before you clock it and the wrench it in by hand. (see below). To rotate, you remove the little socket cap screws and rotate the base. It's easy enough.

I should also note, in my orientation, the wires face the block , so again, a ratcheting wrench is your friend. It's not super user friendly, but then nothing about starters on coyotes are.

I have high hopes for it so far, though. It's incredibly robust and starts the engine right up.

Thanks, I think I'm going to go this route. Did you get new cables?

 

[honeybadger]

Thanks, I think I'm going to go this route. Did you get new cables?

I did order a new cable just in case. I took apart my old one with the intent to remove the starter battery cable and 12v trigger so that they're physically separate from the rest of the harness. This way, I could swap them out quickly if needed.

 

[ChipG]

Thought y'all might be interested in this. I'm using the Powermaster 9532 as well based on having had the same OEM starter issues when heat soaked. This weekend I did the Shelby Mountain Run and on Thursday at lunch the car wouldn't start. I thought to myself "this one dies in the heat too?" We tried jumping the car in case it was a battery problem and realized that we could hear the starter turning but not engaging the engine, so we push started it and I got back to the hotel. Looking under the car, I could see the starter gears just hanging out. The starter was completely disconnected from the engine and sitting on the k-member! So, I put the car up, expecting to find the mounting bolts gone or worse, sheared off. Oddly, though, they were still there. Along with the starter mounting flange. One of the 3 bolts holding the flange was gone and the other two had sheared off. On the positive side, the fix was relatively straightforward after a run to the nearest Lowe's (over an hour away) in a borrowed truck and some night wrenching in a parking lot with borrowed tools. Everything is good now, but this is not a failure mode I've seen. @honeybadger, this is probably something to add to your pre-race checklist.

 

[JAJ]

Interesting - you can see what happened if you study the way it's assembled and what's there and what's missing. It looks like one of the three screws that hold the plate onto the starter body fell out. That left two, and if you look at their positioning relative to the starter mechanism, you can see that any kind of load or vibration - Voodoo specific or just road noise - would have considerable leverage at the heads of the two remaining screws. They took it as long as they could, but eventually, fatigue got the better of them and their heads broke off. The starter was free to drop down.

It might be worth contacting Powermaster and getting three new bolts (the Lowes ones might not be strong enough) and having a discussion about thread lockers.

 

[ChipG]

Interesting - you can see what happened if you study the way it's assembled and what's there and what's missing. It looks like one of the three screws that hold the plate onto the starter body fell out. That left two, and if you look at their positioning relative to the starter mechanism, you can see that any kind of load or vibration - Voodoo specific or just road noise - would have considerable leverage at the heads of the two remaining screws. They took it as long as they could, but eventually, fatigue got the better of them and their heads broke off. The starter was free to drop down.

It might be worth contacting Powermaster and getting three new bolts (the Lowes ones might not be strong enough) and having a discussion about thread lockers.

That was my thought on failure mode as well - once one came out the other two couldn't hold up and sheared under load/fatigue. I got the strongest stainless bolts I could at Lowe's. I can't say I was particularly impressed by the strength of the Powermaster bolts, though I do intend to reach out to Powermaster about the failure. I did use threadlocker and lock washers both on the replacement bolts.

 

[Cobra Jet]

That was my thought on failure mode as well - once one came out the other two couldn't hold up and sheared under load/fatigue. I got the strongest stainless bolts I could at Lowe's. I can't say I was particularly impressed by the strength of the Powermaster bolts, though I do intend to reach out to Powermaster about the failure. I did use threadlocker and lock washers both on the replacement bolts.

My suggested fix was going to be what you already did, meaning aside from the thread locker, definitely the addition of lock washers.

Maybe Powermaster should incorporate lock washers (for Shelby applications). I don't think threadlockwr alone will be the answer due to the extreme heat cycles when on track and the VooDoo vibes.

Or thinking even more about this - for those specific bolts, include bolts with predrilled holes for the use of safety wire ties.

 

[JAJ]

That was my thought on failure mode as well - once one came out the other two couldn't hold up and sheared under load/fatigue. I got the strongest stainless bolts I could at Lowe's. I can't say I was particularly impressed by the strength of the Powermaster bolts, though I do intend to reach out to Powermaster about the failure. I did use threadlocker and lock washers both on the replacement bolts.

The problem with stainless is that it's not very strong. Well, the 17-4 that Caliperfexion uses is, but most commercial fasteners are around 70,000 psi tensile strength. These Torx fasteners are steel and 180,000 psi - comparable to ARP strength specs: browse fasteners | McMaster-Carr

My suggested fix was going to be what you already did, meaning aside from the thread locker, definitely the addition of lock washers.

Maybe Powermaster should incorporate lock washers (for Shelby applications). I don't think threadlockwr alone will be the answer due to the extreme heat cycles when on track and the VooDoo vibes.

Or thinking even more about this - for those specific bolts, include bolts with predrilled holes for the use of safety wire ties.

When it comes to lock washers, the best ones I've found are Nord-Lock. You can see how they work here: Nord-Lock Wedge-Locking Washers - Junker Vibration Test - YouTube

 

[ChipG]

The problem with stainless is that it's not very strong. Well, the 17-4 that Caliperfexion uses is, but most commercial fasteners are around 70,000 psi tensile strength. These Torx fasteners are steel and 180,000 psi - comparable to ARP strength specs: browse fasteners | McMaster-Carr

When it comes to lock washers, the best ones I've found are Nord-Lock. You can see how they work here: Nord-Lock Wedge-Locking Washers - Junker Vibration Test - YouTube

Good info. The bolt size is m5-0.8, so I had to settle for 170k psi, but I've ordered bolts and Nord-locks.

 

[honeybadger]

Thought y'all might be interested in this. I'm using the Powermaster 9532 as well based on having had the same OEM starter issues when heat soaked. This weekend I did the Shelby Mountain Run and on Thursday at lunch the car wouldn't start. I thought to myself "this one dies in the heat too?" We tried jumping the car in case it was a battery problem and realized that we could hear the starter turning but not engaging the engine, so we push started it and I got back to the hotel. Looking under the car, I could see the starter gears just hanging out. The starter was completely disconnected from the engine and sitting on the k-member! So, I put the car up, expecting to find the mounting bolts gone or worse, sheared off. Oddly, though, they were still there. Along with the starter mounting flange. One of the 3 bolts holding the flange was gone and the other two had sheared off. On the positive side, the fix was relatively straightforward after a run to the nearest Lowe's (over an hour away) in a borrowed truck and some night wrenching in a parking lot with borrowed tools. Everything is good now, but this is not a failure mode I've seen. @honeybadger, this is probably something to add to your pre-race checklist.

UGH. What doesn't this engine rattle loose? How many total miles do you think you had on yours?

I had about 8-10 engine hours on mine without issue. But I'll probably replace the bolts now. Thanks for the heads up!

 

[Cobra Jet]

The problem with stainless is that it's not very strong. Well, the 17-4 that Caliperfexion uses is, but most commercial fasteners are around 70,000 psi tensile strength. These Torx fasteners are steel and 180,000 psi - comparable to ARP strength specs: browse fasteners | McMaster-Carr

When it comes to lock washers, the best ones I've found are Nord-Lock. You can see how they work here: Nord-Lock Wedge-Locking Washers - Junker Vibration Test - YouTube

Thanks for the info on the Nord-Lock hardware!

 

[jmn444]

Officially in the powermaster club now. easy install, works great... time will tell if it fixes the heat issues but we'll see! Might add a heat shield next time it's on the lift.

 

[Angrey]

The problem with stainless is that it's not very strong. Well, the 17-4 that Caliperfexion uses is, but most commercial fasteners are around 70,000 psi tensile strength. These Torx fasteners are steel and 180,000 psi - comparable to ARP strength specs: browse fasteners | McMaster-Carr

When it comes to lock washers, the best ones I've found are Nord-Lock. You can see how they work here: Nord-Lock Wedge-Locking Washers - Junker Vibration Test - YouTube

I used Nordlock on my header bolts. They're great, but man they aren't cheap if you get the stainless vs galvanized ones.

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