Spring/shock opinions

[Bluemustang]

Hey all, I'm considering a change from my Ford Racing track springs because I feel like this car needs linear springs. The car corners extremely well but I don't think I like the feel of the progressive springs. On the highway at speeds 70-80 or above, the car doesn't "feel" as settled as I think it should be. I know the car can do it and go 100+ if I want it to as I've taken curves at 120 before no problem. But the steering feel over bumps at speed is inconsistent. It doesn't feel like I think it should. It discourages me from going fast because the car feels like it's going faster than it actually is. On less than perfect highways I'm getting passed by regular passenger cars and made to feel silly. The car has completely different feel when I'm on or off the throttle. Under heavy or medium throttle the car feels more or less locked down and as soon as I get off the throttle it feels unsettled. Lighter throttle at speed - the car feels vague.

It seems like the spring rate is constantly changing and I think this is what is giving the odd feeling I am describing. I think that this car really needs a linear spring and if I recall correctly - when I had BMR SP080s and Koni Sports it felt way more consistent in all areas. On/throttle, weight shifts, speed high or low. But I ended up going to the FRPP setup because I was unhappy with the harshness of the ride and what I believe was too much compression on the Koni shocks. I have a marginally better ride quality now but the inconsistency of the progressive springs can make it actually ride worse in some situations if that makes sense.

So I would like to seek opinions on what springs to pair with my Ford Racing shocks or other combinations with parts I already have.

I still have the BMR SP080s in my garage and the Konis. However my suspension has changed since I ran that combo. I have a bunch of other suspension bits such as:

BMR sway bars, BMR toe links, BMR vert links, BMR CB005,Steeda bumpsteer, Steeda RLCA bearing, Steeda black urethane diff inserts, Steeda billet shock mounts, FRPP toe bearing, MM CC plates, FRPP strut tower brace. I do not want to take these parts off as it took considerable time and expense installing them, which I did for valid performance reasons.

I'm not looking for a Cadillac ride. I have a track suspension setup and I realize it will be harsher than stock. But I want a more consistent handing experience and a more confident/stable FEELING at high speeds.

I've PMed with [MENTION=10281]BmacIL[/MENTION] and I think we've come up with a good compromise of:

BMR 089/082 with my existing FRPP shocks and run STOCK tie rods in place of the Steedabumpsteer kit. Our thoughts seem to be that this will minimize the geometry changes from the stock car and the linear spring rate of the BMRs should lend to a very consistent and planted feel. I think that is what I'll do because it uses parts I already have (sans the SP089s which I'll have to buy). But I wanted to seek other opinions in case any one else has a better idea. And hopefully I'll have a combination that will satisfy me for years.

1. BMR SP089/082 with FRPP shocks and stock tie rods
2. BMR SP080s with FRPP shocks and Steeda bumpsteer
3. Either BMR combo and Koni Sports w/ stock or Steeda tie rods depending on front drop
4. BMR Handling with FRPP shocks
5. BMR handling with Koni Sports
6. Another linear spring (you suggest) and FRPP shocks
7. Another linear spring and Koni Sports

GT350R is another good option is looks like. I'd like to minimize geometry changes hence the minimal drop front idea. And I don't want to lower the rear more than 0.5 inches.

Suspension gurus, what would you do if you were me? I'd like to get the best combo with minimal parts/installation cost. Any input from anyone is welcome.

And thank you to [MENTION=10281]BmacIL[/MENTION] - I appreciate your advice as always.

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[spiller]

I am running the FRPP shocks and swaybars with BMR handling springs front and rear. The ride is fine for daily use (I dd my car) and not what I would call harsh at all. The car is flat through the corners and you can push it with confidence. I also have CB005, steeda billet rear shock mounts, steeda front camber plates and J&M vertical links + FRPP toe link bearing.

However

The FRPP shocks are holding this set up back. The car is very skittish and unsettled over high speed bumps and it bounces around. The issue is mainly in the rear but both front and rear could do with more rebound control. BMacIL has suggested that I try Koni sports which seem like a good option. I think they would solve my particular problem, but they're $1700 for the set here in Australia which is more than I care to spend on a twin tube set up given what I've already spent on the FRPP set up. I can't really be bothered pulling the front strut apart again.

In hindsight I would have avoided the FRPP dampers period. They fine for a street set up but if you are enthusiastic about cornering and spirited driving and understand what you want from a suspension set up, you'll be disappointed with them every time.

So If I were you, I'd put the Koni back in since you already have them. The other option if you want excellent ride quality with consistent handling to match is to consider one of the many coilover options. Ridetech are supposedly fantastic.

 

[BmacIL]

I am running the FRPP shocks and swaybars with BMR handling springs front and rear. The ride is fine for daily use (I dd my car) and not what I would call harsh at all. The car is flat through the corners and you can push it with confidence. I also have CB005, steeda billet rear shock mounts, steeda front camber plates and J&M vertical links + FRPP toe link bearing.

However

The FRPP shocks are holding this set up back. The car is very skittish and unsettled over high speed bumps and it bounces around. The issue is mainly in the rear but both front and rear could do with more rebound control. BMacIL has suggested that I try Koni sports which seem like a good option. I think they would solve my particular problem, but they're $1700 for the set here in Australia which is more than I care to spend on a twin tube set up given what I've already spent on the FRPP set up. I can't really be bothered pulling the front strut apart again.

In hindsight I would have avoided the FRPP dampers period. They fine for a street set up but if you are enthusiastic about cornering and spirited driving and understand what you want from a suspension set up, you'll be disappointed with them every time.

So If I were you, I'd put the Koni back in since you already have them. The other option if you want excellent ride quality with consistent handling to match is to consider one of the many coilover options. Ridetech are supposedly fantastic.

I do think you have a preference for a much firmer ride than most. Mine is similarly stiff (and same rear springs) and is occasionally too stiff for daily use. I love the handling though. The BMR SP080s or 089/082 are much more in line with what most are looking for in a good handling street car, and the FRPP dampers will provide excellent control paired with them.

 

[spiller]

I do think you have a preference for a much firmer ride than most. Mine is similarly stiff (and same rear springs) and is occasionally too stiff for daily use. I love the handling though. The BMR SP080s or 089/082 are much more in line with what most are looking for in a good handling street car, and the FRPP dampers will provide excellent control paired with them.

I would agree, I probably prefer a firmer ride than most :cheers:. I have a love/hate relationship with my GT. Sometimes I get in and drive like a bat out of hell and feel like everything is at one with the world, then at other times it feels too soft, inconsistent and not planted, much like the OP is describing. I have come to the conclusion that it's to do with whatever type of surface I am driving on at the time. It is more rolling undulations that cause the bouncing in my case. You have koni just in the rear Bmac? They are stiffer than the FRPP and require a different sized steeda mount?

 

[BmacIL]

I would agree, I probably prefer a firmer ride than most :cheers:. I have a love/hate relationship with my GT. Sometimes I get in and drive like a bat out of hell and feel like everything is at one with the world, then at other times it feels too soft, inconsistent and not planted, much like the OP is describing. I have come to the conclusion that it's to do with whatever type of surface I am driving on at the time. It is more rolling undulations that cause the bouncing in my case. You have koni just in the rear Bmac? They are stiffer than the FRPP and require a different sized steeda mount?

Yes just the rear. I have mine set 1/4 turn from full soft. Judging from my friend's car with 350R springs all around and FRPP dampers, I'd say it's quite similar, with mine being just a bit stiffer (but that's mostly the spring rate difference). You need the 12mm mount for the Koni/Adjustable Pro Action shocks. The FRPP/stock version is 10x1.5mm.

 

[Bluemustang]

I do think you have a preference for a much firmer ride than most. Mine is similarly stiff (and same rear springs) and is occasionally too stiff for daily use. I love the handling though. The BMR SP080s or 089/082 are much more in line with what most are looking for in a good handling street car, and the FRPP dampers will provide excellent control paired with them.

So Bmac - do you think I would end up preferring the FRPP or Koni Sports? I do miss the adjustability of the Konis I must say. What did you think of your friends car with the GT350R springs? Have you driven it?

 

[BmacIL]

So Bmac - do you think I would end up preferring the FRPP or Koni Sports? I do miss the adjustability of the Konis I must say. What did you think of your friends car with the GT350R springs? Have you driven it?

I have and I liked it a lot. Those with FRPP dampers feel great, better than my car over imperfect surfaces and less crashy, although overall quite similar. That's another very good option for you. Drop is 0.7" and 0.3" front and rear. The R rears have a small amount of their dual rate coil still in use during regular road events, so it softens some of the impacts. In cornering they feel very nice, though I admit I didn't get it up beyond about 40-50 mph when I drove his car.

 

[Bluemustang]

Thanks [MENTION=10281]BmacIL[/MENTION]. Do you happen to know the GT350R spring rates? Also - I wonder... what effect can sway bar rate effect the overall experience? I do know that they help to limit body roll during cornering but I wonder how that might affect/if any on the feel of the car at speed when going straight?

I wonder if having my sway bars on too soft a setting for the springs I am running would have a tangible feel driving on the highway or at high speeds.

 

[spiller]

Thanks [MENTION=10281]BmacIL[/MENTION]. Do you happen to know the GT350R spring rates? Also - I wonder... what effect can sway bar rate effect the overall experience? I do know that they help to limit body roll during cornering but I wonder how that might affect/if any on the feel of the car at speed when going straight?

I wonder if having my sway bars on too soft a setting for the springs I am running would have a tangible feel driving on the highway or at high speeds.

I drove my car around with just the sway bars and stock suspension before fitting the FRPP shocks/struts. There was a slight increase in ride harshness in the rear - you could notice the smaller bumps more - but this was only VERY slight. As for linear performance from the sway bars, there is a slight effect on the car's handling characteristics but they really do their thing in the lateral stuff. I still feel very pronounced weight transition to the rear under acceleration with the FRPP bar on stiff setting (hence Bmac's suggestion of the Konis for more rebound dampening).

 

[BmacIL]

Thanks [MENTION=10281]BmacIL[/MENTION]. Do you happen to know the GT350R spring rates? Also - I wonder... what effect can sway bar rate effect the overall experience? I do know that they help to limit body roll during cornering but I wonder how that might affect/if any on the feel of the car at speed when going straight?

I wonder if having my sway bars on too soft a setting for the springs I am running would have a tangible feel driving on the highway or at high speeds.

If your bar isn't bound up by the links or bushings it should have no affect going straight. Both sides will go up and down together. Generally I caution running too stiff on bar. It can upset the car midcorner if too stiff and can limit how much power is put down. I'd stick with what you have and make changes one at a time. You could try stiffening them all around before changing anything else, just to see.

350R springs are 240/890, though the rears seem to have different measurements depending on who did it. I trust the Vorshlag data.

 

[BMR Tech]

[MENTION=10281]BmacIL[/MENTION] there is likely a 2-3% or maybe even more acceptable range with the OE springs. So they may very well be something along the lines of 914lbin +/- 3%. Vorshlags 890 is likely accurate.

 

[BmacIL]

[MENTION=10281]BmacIL[/MENTION] there is likely a 2-3% or maybe even more acceptable range with the OE springs. So they may very well be something along the lines of 914lbin +/- 3%. Vorshlags 890 is likely accurate.

[MENTION=19599]Bluemustang[/MENTION], I still recommend what I originally did:
089/082 with your FRPP dampers

 

[Bluemustang]

I feel like my car may need more rebound dampening. What I mean is, with some of the slack taken out of the rear via stiffer components, bearings, etc. maybe there is more to absorb in terms of chassis reactions. The handling feel is so direct now that maybe it needs more control in terms of the damper. Does this make sense?

 

[Bluemustang]

[MENTION=19599]Bluemustang[/MENTION], I still recommend what I originally did:
089/082 with your FRPP dampers

Without some new or groundbreaking information I am intending on going with with your suggestion :cheers:

I'm a fan of BMR and won't hide that. Originally I felt I like the BMR SP080s but I think took issue with the Konis. Too much shock for not enough spring was my theory at the time. Also I didn't know about the shock mounts at the time which could have helped matters. Truth is I've regretted ditching the BMR springs and have been contemplating switching back for awhile now.

So this actually makes things easier. I've seen quite a few people on here with the FRPP track pack who ended up swapping the springs out for the linear variety. Seems to me it'd be much easier for the shocks to actually do its job when it's controlling a spring with a constant rate.

I think there is a vagueness or slightly unpredictable nature to the progressive springs. Maybe it's just me and it's my setup and has nothing to do with the progressive rate of the springs. But that's my feeling. And I've seen more than a few on this forum that swear by linear rates as the way to go and that in some cases progressive springs can actually ride worse.

One last thought and I'm done lol. I think the 089/082 combo will be more similar to a stocker PP car, which ultimately is more what I think I need. Being a street car I don't need every ounce of handling at the expense of streetability. And the linear rate and minimal lowering should maintain a more consistent feel, as you've stated, and will also result in less suspension geometry changes - which yes I do think affects the handling of the car overall.

 

[BmacIL]

Without some new or groundbreaking information I am intending on going with with your suggestion :cheers:

I'm a fan of BMR and won't hide that. Originally I felt I like the BMR SP080s but I think took issue with the Konis. Too much shock for not enough spring was my theory at the time. Also I didn't know about the shock mounts at the time which could have helped matters. Truth is I've regretted ditching the BMR springs and have been contemplating switching back for awhile now.

So this actually makes things easier. I've seen quite a few people on here with the FRPP track pack who ended up swapping the springs out for the linear variety. Seems to me it'd be much easier for the shocks to actually do its job when it's controlling a spring with a constant rate.

I think there is a vagueness or slightly unpredictable nature to the progressive springs. Maybe it's just me and it's my setup and has nothing to do with the progressive rate of the springs. But that's my feeling. And I've seen more than a few on this forum that swear by linear rates as the way to go and that in some cases progressive springs can actually ride worse.

One last thought and I'm done lol. I think the 089/082 combo will be more similar to a stocker PP car, which ultimately is more what I think I need. Being a street car I don't need every ounce of handling at the expense of streetability. And the linear rate and minimal lowering should maintain a more consistent feel, as you've stated, and will also result in less suspension geometry changes - which yes I do think affects the handling of the car overall.

The other aspect is that, since you have things like the RLCA bearings, lockout kit, etc., you won't lose the large handling benefits from those items. Mainly you'll gain a more predictable car and more comfortable ride. You can always go a little stiffer on the bars if you want. Stiffen the front one for more steering weight and responsiveness up front. I'd leave the rear as soft as you can go and still enjoy the handling. Being planted is a good thing, and lifting an inside tire doesn't help you put power down.

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