So, steppin’ out?

[Vlad Soare]

One of the fundamentals was the interaction between pedals and steering. One instructor told us to tie an imaginary rope between any pedal and the bottom of the steering wheel. If we wanted to steer more, the pedal had to come up to give you "slack". If we wanted more pedal, we had to take up the slack and have less steering.

True, but the issue we're debating here is that the car goes suddenly sideways while driven in a straight line.

Point is, I don't feel the S550 is a dangerous car at all unless you turn off the electronics and drive it like a crazy person. It's a very predictable car.

That's my feeling as well. But then, mine's a manual. I bet yours is, too. Automatics seem to be trickier.
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[young at heart]

Just based on my personal experience I think you’re on to something, Vlad. Both times that I have had unexpected “excitement“ with mine came on downshifts. One was at low speed when I think I was in 3rd and full throttle in Drag mode took it down to 1st when I guess I was expecting 2nd. The other was a 45 mph full throttle downshift while passing a slower vehicle. Given I didn’t have excessive space to get around him it was maybe a little dicey. Had to stay in it.

Neither situation was unrecoverable and I was able to drive out of them both, but yeah they were indeed exciting and unexpected.

 

[FinitePrimus]

I believe there is also some physics in this as well regarding people changing the default wheel/tire setup.

Some interesting reading here:
https://www.physlink.com/Education/AskExperts/ae200.cfm

TLDR = wider the tire, the less weight pressing against the road surface technically reducing friction. If you've got too wide a tire for the application, higher risk of hydroplaning (or hitting an uneven spot on the road) and as weight reduces friction, engine spins tire faster breaking traction and not being able to re-establish (like in a WOT scenario)

 

[Ebm]

Cold tires, bald tires, or crappy roads along with an inexperienced driver are the cause of most of these...

A lot of the videos have the driver trying to give it more gas to overcome the situation. Big mistake with an inexperienced driver. If the driver would have completely let off the gas, they wouldn't have wrecked.

 

[poletone]

I just drive my shit slow when I turn and rip on straights. Gotta respect the car.

 

[young at heart]

I believe there is also some physics in this as well regarding people changing the default wheel/tire setup.

Some interesting reading here:
https://www.physlink.com/Education/AskExperts/ae200.cfm

TLDR = wider the tire, the less weight pressing against the road surface technically reducing friction. If you've got too wide a tire for the application, higher risk of hydroplaning (or hitting an uneven spot on the road) and as weight reduces friction, engine spins tire faster breaking traction and not being able to re-establish (like in a WOT scenario)

So, help me see if I’m understanding this right. I’m currently riding on stock 255/40 19s with the stock 19x8.5 black package wheels. So let’s say I decide to go with a supercharger and figure I’ll need more traction. Am I to understand that if I went with a wider tire of the same construction as my P Zeros I wouldn’t gain anything in terms of traction? But if I changed out the P Zeros for a softer/stickier tire in the exact same size as stock I’d be better off?

I realize that the best solution would be new tires that were stickier AND bigger, but work with me here. I’m just thinking that maybe if I went with FI and didn’t intend to track the car or get crazy but just wanted to enjoy some spirited street driving I might get by with stock size wheels and tires but with stickier tires.

 

[WildHorse]

These guys are hooking on 6" wide tires. Basically a 215/75.
So tires are only part of the equation.
Mind. Blown.

Then we have this:

Go figure. See if you can figure out what went wrong.

 

[illadvised]

Using one single command mechanism (i.e. accelerator pedal) to control two completely different things (i.e. engine torque and transmission ratio), one of which, to make matters worse, augments the other, is very tricky, especially at or near the limit. You press the pedal as hard as you think is necessary to get a certain acceleration rate, and bam! the gearbox downshifts, and all of a sudden more torque is sent to the rear wheels than you expected and wanted.

More inputs control the transmission than just accelerator pedal. I think brake pedal, current vehicle speed, drive modes are all taken into consideration. You know on top of the shifter paddles...

I think this is more about people not knowing how to drive their own car, though autos probably make it easier for someone inexperienced to get behind the wheel of a high horsepower car.

Everyone knows the downshift is killer. If you give your car a bunch gas while you are in too high of a gear, you are dumb and asking for it in my opinion. For instance OP went WOT at 45mph trying to pass someone and it stepped out, no offense but that is dumb as hell if you don't put any thought into it at all first

Autos are easy to race with, you just have to learn to use the car and get it to downshift to the right gear first, use the drive modes/paddles. Cant expect someone brand new to manuals to drive a manual car well

 

[ihasnostang]

ignore the wheel hop at the start. Nannies turned off.

 

[WildHorse]

I think this more about people not knowing how to drive their own car

And with this answer.. every guy wants to be him, & every girl wants to be with him.
That's the price of injecting logic into a conversation.

 

[2BigPups]

Sig, are they the P-Zero Nero? And is your car stock all over? Do you have 3.15s?

Reason I ask is I had a similar incident a few weeks ago passing someone at about 45 mph also. My car is pretty much identical to yours but is a convertible. Full throttle downshift and all hell broke loose, including the back end. Like it somehow caught one gear too low on the downshift. Both Nannie’s were on in track mode. I was a little tight on room so I had to stay in it but fortunately I was able to drive out of it. My wife calmly informed me that if I intended to drive that way going forward she would no longer ride with me-and she’s been fine before on some pretty hard pulls. I didn’t tell her it wasn’t intentional.

Lets face it: these cars are pretty freakin’ fast even bone stock. I think the answer may be partly found in a couple of the most recent posts, namely that the tires, tech and traction on these cars is so good that by the time they do get loose they’re going so fast that the result can be violent and harder to control. Somebody just made the point that the older cars lost traction much easier and it wasn’t such a surprise. That’s very true. Thinking back on it, I had at least one big block Corvette that never really got a good bite up to close to 100 mph. But I came to expect it and knew how to deal with it. It wasn’t violent and without warning.

I had thought about bigger wheels and stickier tires but maybe this makes a case for sticking with the stock black package wheels and P Zero Neros.

I have found the P Zero Neros to have very inconsistent traction for an all season tire, with a tendency to suddenly lose traction with no notice or feedback. If you want to stay with Pirelli, the P Zero A/S+ is a better tire. A much better all around tire is the Michelin Pilot Sport All Season 4.

 

[FinitePrimus]

So, help me see if I’m understanding this right. I’m currently riding on stock 255/40 19s with the stock 19x8.5 black package wheels. So let’s say I decide to go with a supercharger and figure I’ll need more traction. Am I to understand that if I went with a wider tire of the same construction as my P Zeros I wouldn’t gain anything in terms of traction? But if I changed out the P Zeros for a softer/stickier tire in the exact same size as stock I’d be better off?

I realize that the best solution would be new tires that were stickier AND bigger, but work with me here. I’m just thinking that maybe if I went with FI and didn’t intend to track the car or get crazy but just wanted to enjoy some spirited street driving I might get by with stock size wheels and tires but with stickier tires.

No tire expert, but I think we sometimes equate traction with width. I think from my basic research there is a lot more to the equation. Compound, sidewall, height, width, rim width, rim height, etc.

From my research there is most definitely 255 tires that would perform better than 305 tires in the traction department. I think it's a larger conversation more around the vehicle specifics, operating environment, etc. For example more sidewall should give you more traction than more width when looking at the same tire. I guess that's why you see drag packs with 15/16" rims.

I think with the stepping out situation, many times it's people who have adjusted the "Ford recipe" by putting wider tires on, tires with more grip, lowered suspension etc. which the nannies have difficulty compensating for.

 

[WildHorse]

Meanwhile 1/2 you guys are running bald Nittos.

 

[young at heart]

More inputs control the transmission than just accelerator pedal. I think brake pedal, current vehicle speed, drive modes are all taken into consideration. You know on top of the shifter paddles...

I think this more about people not knowing how to drive their own car, though autos probably make it easier for someone inexperienced to get behind the wheel of a high horsepower car.

Everyone knows the downshift is killer. If you give your car a bunch gas while you are in too high of a gear, you are dumb and asking for it in my opinion. For instance OP went WOT at 45mph trying to pass someone and it stepped out, no offense but that is dumb as hell if you don't put any thought into it at all first

Autos are easy to race with, you just have to learn to use the car and get it to downshift to the right gear first, use the drive modes/paddles. Cant expect someone brand new to manuals to drive a manual car well

“Dumb as hell” might be a trifle harsh but I do understand what you’re saying. I’ve had automatic trans cars with more horsepower and torque than the Mustang but never experienced this phenomenon before. Of course they weren’t 10 speeds but they had tighter rears than my 3.15.

Two facts come to mind: I’ve had a lifetime of experience with fast cars, so although I was surprised I was able to drive out of it. And it would be dumb indeed if it wasn’t a learning experience for me. It was. At only 2500 miles I guess I’m still learning the car.

 

[illadvised]

“Dumb as hell” might be a trifle harsh but I do understand what you’re saying. I’ve had automatic trans cars with more horsepower and torque than the Mustang but never experienced this phenomenon before.

Sorry that did come off as harsh, but it seemed to be common sense to me once I figured it out when the car was new. The fact it was a learning experience is all that matters!

The main thing you need to keep in mind is the coyote has a powerband that favors high rpm, so cruising at low rpm in 6th gear equals high rpm and max torque in 2nd/3rd gear when you floor it. Cruising at low rpm and then flooring it is what is dangerous.

For new people, the trick is you need to learn the vehicle. The speed that it is currently going and most importantly the gear you are currently in! If you know you are in a higher gear just cruising, then you know there is a lot of gears the tranny will want to skip when you floor it; so don't! Drop gears manually first, or find a way to communicate to the car that you'll be going wot soon. Change drive modes or stab the throttle a few times to force it to drop gears

Downshift on these are killer. It helps a lot to have some kind of indicator of what gear your auto is currently in.

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