Shopping for my next F-Street Mustang

[Ugly John]

I've been playing with the build-your-own feature on the Ford site, trying to figure out what I want when I upgrade to a GT (which could be soon).

Originally I was thinking about going with the PP, but I'm not crazy about the 3.73 gears on my daily driver (mileage), and the brakes limit the wheels I could put on. I already have a set of 18x8 wheels from a GT, and I plan on getting a set of RE71R's for them. It would be good to be able to put these straight on the new car for autoX, and I couldn't with the PP.

Plus, the PP comes with summer only tires, which I def do not want for a DD.

So if I went with the PP, I'd have to buy a set of A/S tires for DD use, plus another set of wheels that would fit over the brakes, plus a set of the RE71R's to fit those wheels. Right there I'm looking at a couple $K.

If I get the standard GT with the black accent package (which comes with 19 inch wheels of unknown width), I would have the 275/40-19 A/S tires for DD, and the other set of GT 18x8's with 255/40-18 RE71R's for autox.


So, I've got it narrowed to a GT with M/T & the black accent package which comes with 19 inch wheels, and I'm trying to figure out if I want the 3.55 gears (like I think I do), or if I should stay with the 3.31's. It seems to be a good compromise between performance and mileage. I'd appreciate thoughts on this.

Also, thoughts on staying away from the PP? I have a Strano rear bar that I will be swapping over, but I'll be missing all the other suspension and chassis goodies that the PP comes with. I can upgrade the shocks, but I can't change the springs or add the K brace or strut tower brace. Will those items make that much of a difference for autoX?

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[kz]

There are much more experienced FS drivers here but two main benefits I see of PP is wheel width (remember you have to maintain width car came with) and in a result tire width and Torsen differential.

With PP you get 9" front / 9.5" rear. Not sure what black accent package comes with but guessing 8.5" wide like other 19" wheel packages. if 20" wheel package is still an option, you can use that rule and "upgrade" to 9" width / 19" diameter wheel. Bottom line - you should be after maximum possible tire width while watching overall diameter and resulting gearing change.

255/40-18s are an inch smaller on diameter than OEM which is going to affect your gearing quite a bit - especially if you go with 3.55....

I would say don't make mistake I did and buy PP (when I bought mine I had no idea I'll be autocrossing it). On smaller courses where you do not hit limiter in 2nd gear, PP is definitely a way to go.

 

[NightmareMoon]

8" wheels are going to hurt your tire selection and ultimate grip. Then there are the sways, springs, etc that will not be as stiff as the PP versions and you won't be able to change them in FS (one sway, yes). Then there is the Torsen LSD.

Also check your offsets on those 8" wheels you want to use. If the offsets are more than 7mm+/- different from the factory GT offsets, then you also can't use those in FS (maybe with spacers).

Honestly if you're prioritizing the car as a daily driver, thats cool and you should go for it. If you want to be competitive in FS, I'm thinking you're going to loose some ground starting with the base car.

 

[Competition Orange]

If you're prepping an FS car, you'll have 1 sway, dampers, pads and the lightest wheels and widest tires you can get. 255 on an 8 is not ideal, and will get you nowhere.

Front springs would be slightly softer on non PP, and you wouldn't have the coolers, but everything else should be corrected with the above mods. You could also option the 20s so you could do square 19x9s...

 

[GuardDog]

The combo you listed is not gonna be competitive... 8 inch rims with 255 are too narrow and there are a lot of mods you are missing out on by not getting the PP. 373 gears are fine in autox just shift to 3rd. Why not buy the PP and daily your 18*8 with a/s tires?

 

[Ugly John]

The combo you listed is not gonna be competitive... 8 inch rims with 255 are too narrow and there are a lot of mods you are missing out on by not getting the PP. 373 gears are fine in autox just shift to 3rd. Why not buy the PP and daily your 18*8 with a/s tires?

Because the 18x8 won't fit over the Brembo's.

 

[GuardDog]

Some fit! lol

 

[BTM]

Get the PP, and buy another set of PP wheels/tires used. Lots of us are changing wheels on ours, and you can buy them pretty cheap. Find someone motivated on this forum's classifieds.

 

[kz]

Because the 18x8 won't fit over the Brembo's.

Ditch them. Wheels are cheap. If you go through trouble of changing the car to run it in FS, buy the right one.

Otherwise you'll be a year or two from now in the same situation.

 

[qtrracer]

Drove an '01 Cobra for years with 3.55s. Routinely got 24 MPGs on an 85 mile mixed commute. Had my '16 GT PP for a week and getting 23.4 MPGs on the same commute. If gas economy is the issue, the PP package is not the problem; the right foot is.

Also, Cobra never hit the limiter in long A/X courses; that old 4.6 wound out real nice. I'll find out about the '16 this weekend, but generally this club uses short courses.

 

[kz]

Drove an '01 Cobra for years with 3.55s. Routinely got 24 MPGs on an 85 mile mixed commute. Had my '16 GT PP for a week and getting 23.4 MPGs on the same commute. If gas economy is the issue, the PP package is not the problem; the right foot is.

Also, Cobra never hit the limiter in long A/X courses; that old 4.6 wound out real nice. I'll find out about the '16 this weekend, but generally this club uses short courses.

On anything but national style courses (unless his club has extraordinary site) it's really hard to be on the limiter with 3.71 - and even if, it's just for a very short time. On larger courses - I was on the limiter for good two seconds at ~63 mph (3.55 + slightly taller tire) so there...

 

[qtrracer]

The fast guys hit the limiters all the time. Short of a dedicated car with two speed stick or CR auto, hitting the limiter is to be expected. Two seconds, however, is a very long time in AX.

 

[boardkat]

The fast guys hit the limiters all the time. Short of a dedicated car with two speed stick or CR auto, hitting the limiter is to be expected. Two seconds, however, is a very long time in AX.

:lol:
no.
start listening/reading and stop ASSuming is the only advice i can give. you're in the right place ;)

 

[NightmareMoon]

Sometimes autox guys are overly superstitious about shifting as little as possible. Which gearing is most advantagous is entirely course (aka site) dependent.

If you're dead set on a Base GT, then just skip FS and go straight to FSP. It may take some money to be competitive in the long run, but you will have more flexibility on mods and the base car will be less of a handicap if you do decide to build out a competitive car than in the more restrictive FS class.

 

[Whiskey11]

Sometimes autox guys are overly superstitious about shifting as little as possible. Which gearing is most advantagous is entirely course (aka site) dependent.

If you're dead set on a Base GT, then just skip FS and go straight to FSP. It may take some money to be competitive in the long run, but you will have more flexibility on mods and the base car will be less of a handicap if you do decide to build out a competitive car than in the more restrictive FS class.

It'd be ESP for Mustangs unless we got moved down to the 1980's shitboxes that constantly break.... Boardkat did you get us moved to FSP?!

Generally speaking, your advice isn't too bad... going to ESP works for those who want to go to race tires, but there are those that don't. Quite honestly, STP offers about 80% of the modifications of ESP (all the same suspension mods except Update/Backdate stuff) and the short 3.73's aren't that big of an issue when you can bump up the rev limiter.

Me personally, I've spent time on the rev limiter at autocross events... the car pulls like a freight train all the way there so I'm not sure why Ford gave us all the valvetrain updates from the Boss 302 to give us 2011 Mustang GT red line.... No matter what though, there is plenty of rev range in the stock valvetrain that can be had with the ST legal tunes. In that regard, the short gearing is actually a benefit, not a hindrance.

For FS though, GT/PP is where it is at... you wont match the thrust curves of a GT/PP in FS trim with a base GT with 3.55's. It'll be close but I'll come out of every corner harder and the only place you'll have an advantage is in fast courses with long straights or fast corners leading into shorter straights where I might need to shift. Most of the time I'm finding that shifting to third either slows you down as you fumble with the shift or slows you down because you don't gain enough speed long enough to justify it. I've been on one course that I'd say it was necessary as I hit 70 MPH in a parking lot going into a really steep left hand turn... out at the Lincoln Air Park on the Nationals Concrete, I've found a few courses where you shift to third at the end but few where shifting has sped up the car on course prior to that.... so with that in mind... "ehhh".

In FS trim the grip levels simply aren't high enough to justify taller gearing... now Boardkat in ESP? Yeaaaaaah............ he's got power and grip to justify the extra gearing and he's using every ounce of it is my understanding.

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