SCCA F-Street Setup. What's Everyone Done so Far?

[BmacIL]

Very nice. +45.5 all around?

Sponsored

 

[Dana Pants]

Very nice. +45.5 all around?

+45.5 rear and 18x9 ET +40 front after necessary spacers to clear the front brakes.

 

[DickR]

Why do you want 18's? I'm guessing so 3rd will work on fast courses.

 

[Dana Pants]

2018 gear ratios are taller and rev limiter is higher. I will be running in 2nd gear. 18s give a better 2nd gear ratio and lower the car. Stock 2nd gear went to 76 mph.

 

[DickR]

2018 gear ratios are taller and rev limiter is higher. I will be running in 2nd gear. 18s give a better 2nd gear ratio and lower the car. Stock 2nd gear went to 76 mph.

My mistake. I thought your signature said you have a 16 with the short second and were trying to make its tall third a better option.
Since you actually have an 18 manual with the taller second and higher rev limit I fully understand.
I have the 10 speed so I have a short second and a good third. Gearing is no longer problem like it was in my 15.

 

[Dana Pants]

More deep thoughts from Dana: 3D printing a pass-fail gauge allows for easy mode strut slotting.

 

[DickR]

FWIW, code isn’t in ECU, need an MSCAN-capable ELM327 OBD-II dongle to access the module and clear in FORScan. Never had it happen myself, but had a similar experience doing a burnout at an early season PS and tripped a code in the ABS module. Lost the run, but reset when I got back and didn’t lose my next three.
Electronics on this car are finicky regardless of what you do (or do not). IME, best solution is to be prepared when they try to bury you at inopportune times. But trust me when I say you’ll be worse off without dyno mode than with it more often than not

Dennis or anyone else - When the "dyno plug" is pulled have you noticed that ABS doesn't work and or brake balance changes? According to Ford engineering that plug's purpose on GT's (I didn't ask about GT 350's) is to take the ABS module off the CAN bus when the plant fills the brake system. It completely disables ABS and brake force distribution as well as ESC/TC.

FYI in Ford autocross and track testing "drifting long enough to lose center on EPAS" can trigger ESC error. Also, hitting a curb at a race track or very hard spins such that the car thinks it was in an accident. Other than that despite extensive track and autocross testing Ford hasn't experienced the problem.

I only tried pulling the plug for a few autocross runs and apparently don't brake hard enough to need ABS or to notice any brake balance changes. No wonder I'm slow.

As noted previously the only time I've experienced the Advance Trac audible warning followed by reverting to normal mode was 3 out of 4 runs at a race track autocross site with LOTS of slaloms and other transitions and even then it didn't happen until after the finish during the "cool down" drive on the track back to grid.

 

[SteveW]

Dennis or anyone else - When the "dyno plug" is pulled have you noticed that ABS doesn't work and or brake balance changes? According to Ford engineering that plug's purpose on GT's (I didn't ask about GT 350's) is to take the ABS module off the CAN bus when the plant fills the brake system. It completely disables ABS and brake force distribution as well as ESC/TC.

FYI in Ford autocross and track testing "drifting long enough to lose center on EPAS" can trigger ESC error. Also, hitting a curb at a race track or very hard spins such that the car thinks it was in an accident. Other than that despite extensive track and autocross testing Ford hasn't experienced the problem.

I only tried pulling the plug for a few autocross runs and apparently don't brake hard enough to need ABS or to notice any brake balance changes. No wonder I'm slow.

As noted previously the only time I've experienced the Advance Trac audible warning followed by reverting to normal mode was 3 out of 4 runs at a race track autocross site with LOTS of slaloms and other transitions and even then it didn't happen until after the finish during the "cool down" drive on the track back to grid.

There's a damn good possibility it does disable ABS as well as stability control because I've been wondering this myself after thinking about behaviors of my car on course over the last season.

For a while now I've been going along thinking I was a wuss and unable to step on the brake pedal hard enough to engage ABS in autocross runs. I rarely felt the pulsing. Then at the last event months ago which was on a slick asphalt surface with a finish section that had a murderously tight series of offsets I just couldn't get through cleanly to save my life. I'd either have a rock hard brake pedal and blow through a wall of cones, or lock up and do the same thing.

I was so frustrated with myself thinking what's wrong with me today that I didn't notice "where's the ABS" while at the event. I had the plug pulled like I normally did at events. I made the correlation between what was going on with my brakes and something a service tech asked me when I had a BMCB module update done earlier in the year. He noticed a whole bunch of ABS communication codes logged.

So, if the plug has the power to modules like ABS and stability control then that would explain these things with my car when it is disconnected.

I need to try plugged & unplugged one of these winter evenings when it is a little slick out. But not too slick that I can't get the car back up in the garage...

Thanks for all the notes from Ford autocross testing. The deal about EPAS losing center or whatever with sliding around makes sense for why the service Advance Trac comes on.

 

[boardkat]

my ABS works with the plug pulled, and I've never seen any stored ABS module codes that weren't a result of a known mechanical issue. i know exactly how my car behaves without ABS (I demagnetized a speed sensor once, and tried running with the ABS fuse pulled early on), and the car does not behave anything like having ABS truly disabled. i.e., no brake lockup, tire smoke, etc under mid-heavy braking events. absent ABS, the car is truly undriveable in an autox setting, due mainly to the EBFD being disabled most likely (since there's no way a 200TW tire has enough grip to overwhelm a 6-pot system under mid-force braking events).

it's too bad we don't have an easily accessible GM Performance team-equivalent in the Ford world to say definitively :(

 

[DickR]

my ABS works with the plug pulled, and I've never seen any stored ABS module codes that weren't a result of a known mechanical issue. i know exactly how my car behaves without ABS (I demagnetized a speed sensor once, and tried running with the ABS fuse pulled early on), and the car does not behave anything like having ABS truly disabled. i.e., no brake lockup, tire smoke, etc under mid-heavy braking events. absent ABS, the car is truly undriveable in an autox setting, due mainly to the EBFD being disabled most likely (since there's no way a 200TW tire has enough grip to overwhelm a 6-pot system under mid-force braking events).

it's too bad we don't have an easily accessible GM Performance team-equivalent in the Ford world to say definitively :(

I don't understand either regarding whether ABS is disabled or not with the plug pulled. I didn't test enough to be sure and I rarely get into the ABS (i.e. I'm slow). I did verify by sending pictures that the plug we pull is the same plug the engineer giving info to my contact was referring to. I did finally find what appears to be the correct wire(s) in the Module Communication area of the FSM. The wire pair is ID as "diagnostic". I did see some codes using Forscan which it cleared during initial testing but didn't check again after pulling the plug for one Pro Finale session. I guess I should look again.

Since I'm still in FS, legality is of course important and disabling ABS or changing brake balance, except with pad material, aren't legal. For you guys whatever works.

 

[NightmareMoon]

Well I just went and pulled the connector and tried a few hard stops and verified ABS still works. Took about as long as it took to write this post. Go try for yourself.

 

[SteveW]

Well I just went and pulled the connector and tried a few hard stops and verified ABS still works. Took about as long as it took to write this post. Go try for yourself.

Same here: ABS works with it unplugged. Tonight was a public road, smooth surface and in a straight line as opposed to whatever was going on at that event I described above.

 

[DickR]

Steve - Regarding your last event on "slick asphalt" did you notice any sandy aggregate or other buildup "off the small car line? Especially if you ran at any time other than early in the event? Many times slick asphalt has fine "sandy" material or less fine "grit" which gets pulled out and results in narrow "ruts" where the traction is decent but if the car isn't driven in the ruts traction is almost non existent. If so less grip than normal even on the clean pavement could have resulted in a minor excursion off line and then "what traction" if you got on the sand or grit. Also big car and narrow line in a very tight course will put you out of the ruts and into the sand. I've been on both sides of this situation numerous times over the decades.

 

[SteveW]

Steve - Regarding your last event on "slick asphalt" did you notice any sandy aggregate or other buildup "off the small car line? Especially if you ran at any time other than early in the event? Many times slick asphalt has fine "sandy" material or less fine "grit" which gets pulled out and results in narrow "ruts" where the traction is decent but if the car isn't driven in the ruts traction is almost non existent. If so less grip than normal even on the clean pavement could have resulted in a minor excursion off line and then "what traction" if you got on the sand or grit. Also big car and narrow line in a very tight course will put you out of the ruts and into the sand. I've been on both sides of this situation numerous times over the decades.

The above is a good possibility. Bumps also come into play and one that I didn't notice in course walks that happened to be at the spot I applied brakes might have been affecting my car as well. It could be that what I perceived to be brake lookup was instead a shot of understeer from a bounce off a bump right when I wanted to hit the brakes.

I think I got one clean run on that course out of 6 or 8. I'd have some issue getting through that element and rather than attempt to save the run but risk making a bigger mess of the course or smack the timing gear with a spin I'd just bail out and run over the wall of cones beside the finish turn and try to do better next time, lol.

 

[DickR]

I emailed my contact at Ford with the "ABS still works fine and brake balance hasn't changed" info from you guys with 15's and 16's. I did it as an "FYI for you and your team" in an effort to be "helpful and diplomatic" since they should be the expert and maybe something changed in 18. I also mentioned that I didn't test/use this enough to determine whether ABS worked or if MagneRide didn't behave the way it should in Track. I told him that in driveway testing the only IP lights were the two for ESC and TC. No ABS light.

Since I don't really trust Forscan to have all the codes, etc. correct and it probably has zero credibility with Ford I Ididn't tell him I did a driveway scan with Forscan today and saw a few ABS related codes including one about steering angle. Torque didn't see any codes using the same adapter that Forscan recommends.

I suspect Ford hasn't actually tested with the plug unplugged or they have and still don't want to do anything that might encourage customers to unplug it on the street or track. They probably know just from comments on this forum that a bunch of macho guys always turn off the nannies on the street.

Sponsored