Roush Stage II installation

[trackd]

Guys, I know this has been discussed at length before, but I really need inputs on any CURRENT issues with the package and related problems having this installed directly at a local authorized Ford dealer I know. Again, this is the complete Stage II 750hp, plus very important (for me) to keep factory warranties PLUS having an authorized Ford dealer install the package; might keep better value in the long run. The $10.5K estimate is reasonable I'd say for this CARB legal upgrade with that claimed hp boost.

So, any current headaches with other components impacted - cooling, electronics, etc etc - and overall maintenance? I'm using my 2019 PP2 75% for track use. I've done baseline times at Auto Club Speedway Roval just this weekend. Definitely need more low-mid range power coming out of corners, this car is way heavier than my prev E46 M3, I can feel the weight on exit speeds.

Thanks for any inputs.

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[RTR077]

No issues here. Although only 1000 miles into the install. Had mine installed at the dealer.

 

[mejohn50]

I think it's generally accepted that the Roush kit on 18+ cars isn't as good at cooling the intake air charge as well as the inverted compressor/charge cooler designs of the competition. Not sure if this is what you are going to want on road race track sessions.

 

[trackd]

I think it's generally accepted that the Roush kit on 18+ cars isn't as good at cooling the intake air charge as well as the inverted compressor/charge cooler designs of the competition. Not sure if this is what you are going to want on road race track sessions.

I want to see more of these inputs, most postings are from the drag race crowd where you only see 2 maybe 3 WOT runs. There's a loooong 750pg thread elsewhere but haven't seen any of the replies dealing with road courses.

 

[tosha]

I have somewhat similar situation, but I've made a decision to install SC before I learned that I want to take my car to a track, so I kinda have not much choice now.

I did some research though around the forums and the general consensus is that the heat would become very hard and expensive to manage, most people advise against that for track cars. And I can understand why - if you are any serious about tracking it, the mustang becomes one big blob of heat even in NA form. If you add a supercharger, now the engine starts producing much more heat that the cooling system is not designed to manage. Next, if you install SC to go faster, it means you put more stress on the breaks, transmission, differential and etc and all these parts will start overheating very quickly. There is a reason why ZL1 1LE or GT500 have radiators all over the place. You would push your car to the same power level, so you would need to deal with adding all these components yourself, and still I would be very much concerned about Coyote's mechanical issues when pushing it to the limit at extended runs.

Lucky for me and my car, I am not serious at all about pushing it to the limit at the track and my focus is on learning proper handling rather than speed and times. So, I'm ok with short shifting and doing cool down laps. I had one weekend so far with it being supercharged and it was a blast. Need to say that it was in October in Canada, so the ambients were between 40-50F and the car did great. My CHT's never went over 210F and while thye were creeping up a bit at the end of straight, they were going back down very quickly in turns.

One big benefit of SC that I really enjoyed is the torque across the rev range. You don't need to rev out the engine and it pulls out of the turns pretty well even at 2.5k rpm. Not that you need to do this, but it's is very addictive. Just for fun, I was able to go through entire track and never shift below 4th gear with a decent pace (Mosport). Aside from my own skills, my most limiting factors were tires and stock pp1 suspension, both of which will be addressed for next season, will see how it all works as I make progress.

However, if it was primarily a track car, I would not supercharge it. I clearly see how it's limited by heat issues and I will never take it anywhere close to a track with ambients at or above 85F, unless I do at least some basic heat management mods. My long term hope is really to get a lighter and smaller car for track use and take mustang out on track only when the conditions are favorable.

 

[trackd]

I have somewhat similar situation, but I've made a decision to install SC before I learned that I want to take my car to a track, so I kinda have not much choice now.

I did some research though around the forums and the general consensus is that the heat would become very hard and expensive to manage, most people advise against that for track cars. And I can understand why - if you are any serious about tracking it, the mustang becomes one big blob of heat even in NA form. If you add a supercharger, now the engine starts producing much more heat that the cooling system is not designed to manage. Next, if you install SC to go faster, it means you put more stress on the breaks, transmission, differential and etc and all these parts will start overheating very quickly. There is a reason why ZL1 1LE or GT500 have radiators all over the place. You would push your car to the same power level, so you would need to deal with adding all these components yourself, and still I would be very much concerned about Coyote's mechanical issues when pushing it to the limit at extended runs.

Lucky for me and my car, I am not serious at all about pushing it to the limit at the track and my focus is on learning proper handling rather than speed and times. So, I'm ok with short shifting and doing cool down laps. I had one weekend so far with it being supercharged and it was a blast. Need to say that it was in October in Canada, so the ambients were between 40-50F and the car did great. My CHT's never went over 210F and while thye were creeping up a bit at the end of straight, they were going back down very quickly in turns.

One big benefit of SC that I really enjoyed is the torque across the rev range. You don't need to rev out the engine and it pulls out of the turns pretty well even at 2.5k rpm. Not that you need to do this, but it's is very addictive. Just for fun, I was able to go through entire track and never shift below 4th gear with a decent pace (Mosport). Aside from my own skills, my most limiting factors were tires and stock pp1 suspension, both of which will be addressed for next season, will see how it all works as I make progress.

However, if it was primarily a track car, I would not supercharge it. I clearly see how it's limited by heat issues and I will never take it anywhere close to a track with ambients at or above 85F, unless I do at least some basic heat management mods. My long term hope is really to get a lighter and smaller car for track use and take mustang out on track only when the conditions are favorable.

Great inputs, lots of sense. I do 20 min sessions, 4 to 5 for the day, but yes that would push heat to the limit. Thanks!

 

[tosha]

Oh, and while we were practicing point by signals and passing, I was paired with a civic type R. I would just floor it in 3rd briefly while passing and then lift and coast and the guy would constantly be very far behind, having hard time to catch up and complete his pass before end of passing zone. He came to me after session and said that he couldn't comprehend how I was able to accelerate past him so quickly with my 460hp, while he was flooring his car and yet felt like he was standing still. Well, surprise, it's 460hp plus his entire 300hp engine on top . We had a good chat.

 

[mejohn50]

I want to see more of these inputs, most postings are from the drag race crowd where you only see 2 maybe 3 WOT runs. There's a loooong 750pg thread elsewhere but haven't seen any of the replies dealing with road courses.

Second post in that thread is pretty clear. A couple of WOT pulls and you’re done for a while. Adding heat from being on track for 20 minutes isn't going to help.

Edit to add: to be clear, I’m not suggesting one system over another. I wouldn’t take my Whipple car on a road race track and expect it to give me full power for 20 minutes either.

I’ve had the roush blower on my car for almost a year. I’m very pleased with idle and around town driving capabilities. I think roush was able to duplicate the factory n/a tune quite well for light throttle driving. I have to admit I was worried the car would have drive ability issues with out having a mass airflow sensor, but this isn’t the case at all.

The biggest thing I noticed is that you will get one, possibly two hits at WOT before timing is pulled and or the throttle body will be closed to limit power. This is mainly due to high post charger air temps. It takes a long time to cool the Intercooler water back down so the car will make power again. It will feel like an N/A car again until things cool off. I realize I have a street car and not a race car so I’ve accepted this. Good thing is, it keeps the motor safe.

Having the Intercooler on top of the blower is the most efficient method to cool air charge temps but I think looks there is a cinder block on top of the engine. IMHO the roush blower looks so much better than other guys.

My car is a manual trans so I can’t speak for the autos. Roush only did an update for the autos not the manuals. This leads me to believe they changed the shift strategy only for the calibration update.

https://www.mustang6g.com/forums/th...y-have-the-the-roush-kit.127474/#post-2640169

 

[tosha]

Great inputs, lots of sense. I do 20 min sessions, 4 to 5 for the day, but yes that would push heat to the limit. Thanks!

Yes, very similar to mine - I did four 30min sessions for the day, 2 days over weekend.

My plan is to find a second hood, cut it and install heat extractors, box the radiator and open up the grill, maybe route the windshield lines to spray on radiator and heat exchangers as well. Once I hit the temp limit, consider adding this kit: https://www.roushperformance.com/pa...1-roush-supercharged-max-cooling-upgrade.html
Maybe add engine oil cooler as well. Since we both have MT, at least there is no issue with transmission oil boiling up entire system.
That should be enough for my amateur driving sessions and that's as far as I'm willing to go before I just stop and just get a dedicated track rat car.

 

[tosha]

Second post in that thread is pretty clear. A couple of WOT pulls and you’re done for a while. Adding heat from being on track for 20 minutes isn't going to help.

Edit to add: to be clear, I’m not suggesting one system over another. I wouldn’t take my Whipple car on a road race track and expect it to give me full power for 20 minutes either.



https://www.mustang6g.com/forums/th...y-have-the-the-roush-kit.127474/#post-2640169

Yes - at full power it will not sustain. I've been closely monitoring IAT's on mine while at the track and they were totally fine, given favorable ambient conditions. Multiple WOT pulls on straights with no issues, just not to the rev limit. It's not drag racing and ton a competition, I didn't mind shifting at 6.5k and it was still considerably faster accelerations than NA.

 

[trackd]

Yes - at full power it will not sustain. I've been closely monitoring IAT's on mine while at the track and they were totally fine, given favorable ambient conditions. Multiple WOT pulls on straights with no issues, just not to the rev limit. It's not drag racing and ton a competition, I didn't mind shifting at 6.5k and it was still considerably faster accelerations than NA.

Now wondering if short shifting might work keeping temps lower, since this pkg has plenty of flat torque curve over wide rpm range.

 

[mejohn50]

Yes - at full power it will not sustain. I've been closely monitoring IAT's on mine while at the track and they were totally fine, given favorable ambient conditions. Multiple WOT pulls on straights with no issues, just not to the rev limit. It's not drag racing and ton a competition, I didn't mind shifting at 6.5k and it was still considerably faster accelerations than NA.

I am glad it works for you. That is all that matters. I guess the point I was getting at, and should have been more clear with, to answer the OP's question:

So, any current headaches with other components impacted - cooling, electronics, etc etc - and overall maintenance? I'm using my 2019 PP2 75% for track use.

Adding hundreds of horsepower in heat to a car that is barely capable of doing a 20 minute session at or near 10/10 in stock form is not going to work that well. That heat has to be dissipated somewhere, and none of the off the shelf FI kits do much of anything about getting rid of that additional heat.

 

[tosha]

Now wondering if short shifting might work keeping temps lower, since this pkg has plenty of flat torque curve over wide rpm range.

I guess, now you need to provide some more details to keep the discussion:
1) what's your goals and how hard do you push the car on track? How much do you care about being as fast as possible versus having fun and good time learning?
2) what are your typical ambient conditions during track days?
3) how much are you willing to invest into follow up mods on cooling and etc?

I think I can make mine work because I am open to mod it more as necessary, my focus is not on going faster and faster, and since my tracks are up north, I can avoid really hot days and still have plenty of track days throughout the season. If I was in Texas and was chasing best times, pushing 10/10, supercharger would be a big nono for me.

 

[JK XLR8]

Haven't tracked mine yet, phase2 750hp in South Florida. I would say go for it, have a great time with it, if it runs hot etc, there are plenty of tips and tricks on the board. I do agree with everyone else regarding the heat.....just keep in mind, its not like all of a sudden you are going to lose 300hp when it gets hot!!

 

[tosha]

Haven't tracked mine yet, phase2 750hp in South Florida. I would say go for it, have a great time with it, if it runs hot etc, there are plenty of tips and tricks on the board. I do agree with everyone else regarding the heat.....just keep in mind, its not like all of a sudden you are going to lose 300hp when it gets hot!!

Yeah, it's more like you gonna lose the engine and 100% of hp if you keep pushing it under boost while overheated

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